Hot Rods B4Cdan, or Just Another AV8 Build Thread!

Maybe, but one of us has a driving hot rod!!!

 

Time for a little update...

Unfortunately, I came down with "The 'Rona" Monday morning, so, even though I was home for a week, I felt like crap. Finally, 24 hours without fever, so I decided to get out in the garage.

Started off by grabbing some initial dimensions of the A radiator in relation to the firewall and the floor. Then I pulled the hood, grille and radiator so I could test fit the new Champion Cooling radiator that came in last week. Initial thoughts are this is a very well built unit...nice thick welds, heavy mounting tabs, clean in and out! They even sent two nice radiator hose pieces to trim and fit multiple applications.





Once I got the new Champion close, I started measuring...




Really?!?! Could this actually be happening?!?! Looking at the engine, I deduced that I could just mock up the length of the engine by positioning the intake (with fuel pump/oil fill and generator/fan attached) between the firewall and radiator. I know its way high, but not looking at height at the moment.



IT FITS!!!!!!!! And I don't think I'll need to alter the firewall as the whole assembly will be lowered 5-6" when all is said and done...Should clear everything!

 

Once I determined that this should be the ticket, I started tearing the front down to start on the front section of the frame.

This is where I noticed another problem. Once the radiator was off and I started investigating, I found this:






Probably strong enough but it looks like a bad scab. My preference would be to replace it...then I remembered I had this!!!



I thought, WOW, what a good turn of luck! Then the letdown...




So its not a direct replacement! It does drop down over the outside ends of the original, but not in the center.



Is this supposed to be installed after the original is removed and the frame is boxed, or can I leave 3" of the original, cut out the center, and weld the new unit to the stubs?

 

The rest of the afternoon was dedicated to ridding the chassis of the banger parts.

Before...



After!!



Took the last pic toward the end of the cleanup, hence the future front suspension positioned above the chassis.

And so you know my avatar is not just some cartoon.....



I think I need to go a shade lighter on the hair and beard, though!

 

That radiator is purdy. Might want to put cardboard on the front and back to protect the fins. Don't ask how I know.

Lee

 

Update time!

Not to cloud the progress on the build, I took the crossmember replacement discussion to another thread:

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/ripping-off-the-scab.1272330/

Synopsis: The "new" crossmember was determined to be a weld-in piece for boxed frame rails, so that was a no-go! purchased another new replacement crossmember, but it was for a '32 frame...another nope! Finally found a solution.

I had previously mentioned that I had a couple spare frames in a hiding spot and planned on just swapping frames. But, upon inspection, even the spares had their share of problems. One had good rails but a bad crossmember. The other had a good crossmember, but the rails were tweaked. Last night the light came on....

I set out to salvage the good crossmember from the not-so-good frame and this is what the work produced:




A solid crossmember with little rust damage...AND NO CRACKS OR PATCHES!!

So I set out to perform a crossmember transplant! The frame was prepped for surgery...



Once braced, I removed the bad piece...



Then I cleaned up and painted the frame horns and donor crossmember. It waits for paint to dry and for bolts to be purchased.



Not a bad night's work! So glad I got this delay behind me! Now I can secure the crossmember and start the engine and crossmember placement!

 

Oh...and the cancerous piece? Worse than previously diagnosed!! I'm afraid it's terminal!

 

You know Brett, with no sympathy for the devil, seems the rush to paint it black is hard to resist.


Looking at that crossmember, and with good intent in this offering, it's my opinion that needed more rust removal (die grinder and carbide bits, some citric acid bathing, holy water maybe), some minor welding repair work rebuilding the surface, than with further refinishing paint it white. Why white, because black hides, white shows.
I doubt that was embossed into the crossmember you sent back but I've been wrong before.

That all said, I like what you're doing just not what you've done.

 

Understood, but I did take more time to clean and prep the surfaces than it seems. In the photo you attached, I hastily removed some of the surface rust before I realized that I didn't show the as-extracted condition. No, I did not build up the low spots, but I did inspect the remaining material for thickness and concluded that it was, in fact, sufficient to use as-is.

This build will NEVER win an award (unless it's the "most-weathered tudor"), and I'm good with that. My budget is small, so the majority of the funds will be for a go-well, stop-well, do-well hot rod like would be done by a kid in the 40's. It needs not look-well!

 

Fair enough. But I would ask you to reconsider. It's the right thing to do.
I'm thinking you're getting frustrated with the whole thing and looking for easy.
I understand that.
I agree from following along you've had a crossmember set back or two.
Somedays it's the way things roll.

Myself, from what you describe as your goal, I'd have welded up the underside, ground the top a bit, but mostly left well enough alone. Paint it while.
You have done a lot of work, and some extra work and what have you gained?
A valuable lesson in my book. But it's an opinion.

Hoping third time is the charm, while I see that area as half rusted out only for the reason that it was too damn hard that you didn't, now's the time to make the correction in fixing it, before you bolt it in. And if not...


what came to mind was the recent post regarding Por-15 and the rust under it. Someone will find it eventually. Someone will act surprised. And someone will eventually weld a plate over it.
All good.

 

Saturday, I sourced the proper grade 5 bolts to install the crossmember. It went in without a fight and looks good in place.



Next, I raised the frame high enough to roll the 21-stud underneath, then lowered the frame over the engine to check for clearances. First obvious obstacle was the rear rib on the A crossmember, so I removed a large portion of the rib, while still leaving enough of the vertical to provide some strength. Bella approved!




Now the crank pulley can clear the crossmember and provide the needed space between the firewall and the oil fill/vent. Lowered the frame over the engine/dolly again for another check.




Yes, I know this is the original A radiator, but I wanted to make sure I had good reference points and measurements from the OG parts before I started positioning the new radiator and grille surround.

The transmission can still come up a bit, which will give even more clearance for the oil fill.

 

Yesterday allowed for more time in the garage, so I used the time to shuffle projects around to give better working access to the car.




Bella didn't quite know what to think of the undertaking! Also used the opportunity to take pics of the spare 21-stud that will soon be looking for a new home.

Once the general reorganization was complete, I went back to fitment activities. With the engine and frame arranged as I thought would be best, I staged the new radiator/grille and checked placement by slipping the hood on. I like the look so far....



BUT...The general arrangement revealed that this was not going to be as easy as I first thought! Though the placement looks really good, closer inspection wasn't so promising...




I tried raising the engine to provide direct connection of the two, but this put the fan well up into the hoses and filler neck. Dropping the engine back down to where the motor mounts and the mount biscuit would put the engine, I was back to the above.

While scratching my head trying to figure out a plan, I remembered this radiator was for a 32! When I purchased it, I was thinking that this would be the one I needed since I wanted to use the 32 grille shell. Going back to the vendor's website, I found that the 30/31 radiator is 2" taller that the 32, but since the tops would need to be in the same place (with regard to proper hood positioning), the 30/31 bottom ports should be lower than the 32 ports. Also, there's a substantial bit of room below the bottom tank.

I repositioned the A radiator and rods on the frame, slid the shell on and revealed that the bottom port on the driver side aligned rather well with the water pump inlet.



So, after lunch today, I'll be calling to return this 32 radiator for exchange with the proper 30/31 radiator.

 

Me thinks they make a 30/31 radiator with the filler on the back side specifically to fit a 32 grille shell. I just reused my A radiator and had a the filler moved to the back. Of course, I'm just gonna keep the banger so better radiating isn't an issue unlike you fancy dudes with yer flat heads.

 

@drdave I don’t have a flat hea…..er…..wait….uh, never mind.

 

lol

 

After a blurry week of work and a much-needed week in Mexico, I jumped back on the B4Cdan this weekend.

The radiator that I should have purchased in the first place came in on Friday, so Saturday morning began with repositioning the original banger radiator and support rods to get reference measurements. Once recorded, the old parts came off and the new radiator was set in place and clearances checked. Here's where everything landed....






The coolant ports line up perfectly, the oil fill cap is just touching the firewall, and the fan interferes with the radiator filler neck a bit. The fan will need to be clearanced, but should still move plenty of air, and I'm thinking I can pie-cut the oil fill neck so the cap leans forward a bit.

Once I liked where everything sat, I marked the centerline of the mount holes of the 21-stud on each frame rail as measured from the radiator, then raised the frame up, then moved the motor and its dolly back and out of the way so I could carve up the new motor mounts.

Started with this....



...and ended up with this...



Then I took the other mount and made an exact opposite for the passenger side.

Final fitment...



...welded in place, with engine resting on top (simulated rubber biscuits for spacing)...



Repeat for passenger side...



Rolled the front suspension under the frame and set the frame's full weight on the spring. I think it all looks good together.! All in all, I think Henry would approve....or at least Edsel would!



Next on the list is to start fitment of my F1 crossmember. Wish me luck!

 

Nice work Brett. Just finished a three hour rear brake job (took a week) on my roadster. I'll spend a few days of garage cleaning then move on to serious work on my F1 panel that got postponed last winter due to my busted up shoulder.

Lee

 

Didn't have much time yesterday, but I did crack into the sideload '40 transmission. To my amazement, the internals look nearly new?? Evidently, proper lubrication DOES help!!

 

Had a chance to do the first of several cleaning sessions on the transmission internals.



Definitely need thrust washers, snap rings, gaskets, and end bearings. Jury is still out on the synchro rings and roller bearings.

Used a 10% off coupon yesterday to buy a blast cabinet from HF (not the bench top, too small for trans cases). I know it isn't the best, and I have researched reviews for limitations and trouble spots, but I can pay for it with 2 trans cleanups (based on the quote I got last week from the local engine guru). We'll see how well it does.

Bought 25# of glass beads as well, figuring it would be the best all-around media and would produce the least dust.

Does anyone have opinions on other (better) media?

 

Long overdue update: With a week's vacation and Thanksgiving holiday, I'm just now jumping back on the Tudor.

I wasn't quite happy with the motor mounts. Then I researched how the radiator SHOULD be mounted, and realized I was totally dissatisfied with how I did it! Even with the radiator jacked up, the water pump inlets were still way too high.



So I not only mounted the radiator as Henry intended, but I rebuilt the motor mounts to align the radiator outlets and the water pump inlets.



Positioned them and tacked them in place. MUCH BETTER!!!!




I've had folks tell me that the center line of the motor mount hole needed to be no less than 6-1/2" back from the center of the radiator mount hole on the crossmember. Mine are set at 4-1/2" and still have a smidge of room between the distributor cap and radiator.



AND, my oil fill cap is NOT touching the firewall!!!!! Well, at least not in static mode.



I've really tried to do my research, ask questions, measure, measure, weld, cut, measure....I think the results speak for themselves. I'm TICKLED!!!!



Now to the F1 crossmember...I think the bearing retainer is sitting a little low, so I'll probably gain a bit more oil cap clearance once it's positioned properly. Once that's done, I'll pull the engine and finish weld everything.

 

Quick video to better demonstrate the fit...

https://vimeo.com/manage/videos/777428041

 

Long overdue, but I have a few home blast cabinet tips. I caulked all seams with silicone when I assembled it to reduce dust squeeze out. Add an old used bagless HEPA vacuum cleaner as a dust collector, I have an old thrift store Dyson attached with duct tape to mine. A cheap and bright LED light is invaluable, I'm using a 30w one from amazon screwed to the underside of the top above the glass. Degreese everything before you put it in there. Glass beads gave the best result leaving smooth factory finish to better quality (less rusty) metal parts. Over the years I have learned that 60psi is the max and at 45psi the grit last much, much longer (and only slows the process just a bit) before it becomes dust in the bottom of the vacuum cleaner. I have a mix of stuff in mine right now mostly black beauty slag. It is cheap and works great on rusty old car parts but not a good choice on delicate surfaces or on anything that you do not want to frost/leave with a rougher surface.

 

I'm working on fitting the crossmember now.

I’ve been studying what needs to be done to fit the F1 brake assembly onto the crossmember in the location that will provide the least resistance when mounting with the F1 steering box.

So....I hung a plumb bob from the column drop and then aligned the steering column notch in the firewall with the plumb bob line and determined the centerline of the brake bracket needed to be 3-1/2” from the inside of the top frame flange. Measuring the original location of the bracket holes gave a measurement of 2-1/2”, so the holes needed to shift 1” toward the passenger side.




Having read a bunch of posts, I saw that most people welded up the holes and drilled new ones. That was too straightforward for me, so I devised an evil plot to reuse the old holes in the new location!

I made a template, cut it out and....


transferred the template to the crossmember.


Using a cutoff wheel, I cut the shape out...


then flipped it over....



After some MIG welds...


grinding, and sanding discs, I had relocated holes!!!


Now on to reshaping the ends to fit the frame…wish me luck!!

 

Attached my brake/clutch assembly to check the placement and....



OH, and with the crossmember located and the transmission resting properly in the saddle, My 21-stud sits really nice in between the radiator and firewall...

 

I continued on my crossmember modifications last night with an exercise in symmetry...or should I say ASYMMETRY!

When the ends of the F1 crossmember are modified to fit within the confines of Model A frame rails, you end up with about 3-1/2" of height. Most I've seen have opened that dimension up as soon as possible to leave as much "meat" on the crossmember as possible. But, realistically, the portion that fits within the frame webs is the "weakest link". IF the modified unit fails anywhere, it will fail at this point. So, instead of opening up so quickly, why not continue that dimension to the transmission saddle?

That's what I did last night! I used a divider, set at the dimension to fit the inside of the frame, and scribed a line from the top of the crossmember. Then I scribed another line equal to the radius for the bottom web. That was my first cut line. I, then, scribed a line where the radius of the bottom web meets the face of the crossmember and proceeded to cut that line to where it and the previous cut met. From there it was muscle, grind, weld, grind, weld, grind, until I got to this....




Sorry for the sparse photos...I kinda got in a groove and forgot to take pics...

Now I have more room under the car for exhaust and such. Was even able to close up/get rid of the RHD brake master cylinder holes (well, most of them)!

Tonight, I'll tackle the driver's side! Wish me luck!

 

You don't need luck. You got this!

 

Getting ahead of myself a bit, but I found these on the HAMB classifieds yesterday and struck a deal. They're on their way! Hope they're functional!

 

Gauges were on the doorstep when I got home for lunch....so, naturally, I had to do a trial fit!

 

Another overdue update...

Fitted the F1 crossmember on the driver's side and tacked the modifications...Still need to finish weld.



With that figured out, the next step was to fit the F1 steering box. A quick call to @chaddilac had a new flange kit on the way and the empty box was placed in my vice for reshaping. The end result...







On the other end, I needed to devise a plan for a column drop. I had a bottom strap for the A column mount and a F1 column drop, so I made some lemonade...




And figured the 2 holes could hold a gauge and maybe a headlight switch...