bad thoughts.....REAL BAD THOUGHT'S....GRRRRRRR

1st off.let me tell you I am not a body man/painter.My mind knows what to do,but my hands just don't get it.I learned my shortcomings a long time ago,and that puts me at the mercy of some one else to do the body/paint.I really hate to post anything bad about anyone,but this is one time I am going to make an exception.Anyone that knows me,knows my truck,and knows who was doing the work,in Mansfield Ohio. I pulled my truck from the body shop this past Monday because of quality issues and money disputes. THIS,is a picture of the passenger side running board mount.....this was done about 3 weeks ago during the "final****embly" of my truck,just prior to painting.THIS is how they adjusted the running board to the front fender to get it to align.THIS,plus a quart of bondo.I won't even mention how many parts have been destroyed or damaged during it's stay there.He has had the truck for almost 3 years(this time).It was supposed to be done LAST February for Detroit. Didn't make it. THEN I was promised completion for the Feb. 2004 AutoRama..... AND IT STILL AIN'T PAINTED......I brought it home in pieces and in primer......OH YA....he KNEW that there were going to mirror's under this truck and his name was on the sign as being the builder.........Should I also mention he was way over-budget when we called it quits?
If you would like to see more of the carnage,go to
http://photo.starblvd.net/SKR8PN page 6 and look around.

 

I'd bring the truck to the Autorama just the way it is & make sure there is a big sign naming who did this to your truck that was supposed to be finished a year prior.

Billy

 

I was in lookin at some of yer pictures and if they were taken in the shop where they were doing the work ..it looked pretty good to me...I can tell you from experience that there ain't no such thing as a budget if your doing it on a budget do it yerself and quit*****in whinning...it no small task to turn a truck into a gold chainer...you post one small picture and expect every one to jump on your side cause you ain't happy with the bill...I sure couldn't criticize anyones work with what you posted here ...building a show car or truck out of a 50 year old truck ain't easy or cheap...or done quick if you got other work that pays the bills..if you ain't happy that's your problem but from what you posted and from your pictures I was not able to fault the person doing the work........if you gotta pay somebody to do what you can't do...then get a loan ..but don't whine cause it cost more than you thought...tough ..but I don't know how you can ever put a price on this kind of work...it takes what it takes and costs to get it there .....my opinon..fatchuk

 

What is the name of the shop that it was at. I had a truck at a shop in Indy and got it even worse than you. I am out money and basically my truck. I drove it to the shop and had to tow it home. It is good for parts now and thats about it.

I remember seeing the rendering that Rushforth did in one of the magazines. That will blow if you can't get it done the way it looks in the rendering.

As far as that last guys message sticking up for the shop owner, It is possible that some people just should not have their own shops. They either take on work that they can't handle, don't know how to manage time when it comes to custom work or know how tho manage their people. There is nothing wrong with venting a little frustration.

 

fatchuck,just outta curiosity,if i told you i could say,reside your house for 2000 dollars,and have it done in a week,and it takes me three months and i hand you a bill for 8 grand,wouldn't you be a little pissed?and lets say the siding was blowin off your house to boot,and i really did'nt give a***** cause you already paid me,would'nt you ratfuck me just a little?if not,i'll see you tomorrow to get started on your crib!i think all he's doin is puttin the word out on this dude,kinda a "buyer beware"personaly,i haven't met a painter that is'nt a little twisted and a time tunnel to boot.you definatley should have done a little homework on this dude and pulled your ride outta there way sooner than you did....sorry for your luck bud

 

You CAN put a price on it, fatchuk, that's why the*****ing guy is in business. True, the pic doesn't show whats really messed up, but A YEAR LATER... I think you're the one whining. How many guys you do business for would wait a year after a due date to get a job back... Not many.

Jay

 

It's been my experience that most shops will give you a labor rate per hour plus materials and the parts they need to buy, if any. If an estimate is needed , they give themselves a big leeway so there are no surprises and you pay an amount up front ($5000 in advance) and then "as you go". When the money is used up you ante up som more cash. $50-$60 dollars per hour is scary, but that's the way it is if you want to play the game.Professional body shops can get killed when taking on these type projects as insurance money is there bread and*****er. Otherwise you get put on the back burner, with the "I'll work on it in between other jobs." And then it just sits there for years on end. Everybody looses.

 

I feel for ya Scrape....really.
I'm lucky enough to have a good buddy that does my body work when I can afford him. When I asked hiim how much he'd charge me to body-work and paint my 50 chevy sedan delivery [that I'd bought from him and had had him do the rockers and 1/2 quarters], he told me between 10 and 12 thousand!!!!
While it was way outa my price range, at least he was honest.. I've heard many horror stories like yours. We've even got a local guy [with several bad personal "habits"] that will take work in his shop, quote a fair price and tear the car apart. He'll jack the price up abouot 3 times the original estimate and have the car towed to his private, fenced building. He immediatelly slaps a lein on the car and if the owner doesn't come up with the cash in 30 days, the car is legally his! I hate***** like this..
And people wonder why my cars are seldom painted.

 

I replied to your post on the other board, Jim.

I wondered at that time, why you did not seek legal action.

As I said, the shop that did my body and paint, did a job far better than I had hoped, and when the PPG primer gave way(PPg did not stand behind it) Steve and his shop took it back down and redid the car from bare metal out.

that did not cost me one red cent.
There are quality shops out there.

I think you should persue this matter in court.

Jim

 

Jay can back me up on this:
You must have gone to a shop that wanted your $$$ but didn't NEED your business...I don't really wanna get in the middle of this, but I can figure that you didn't want (or couldn't afford) to pay what it REALISTICALLY would have cost to do your truck (say, $15,000+ or so), and the shop didn't want to do the work to begin with. Everybody got fu*ked in the end. You're not happy, and I guarantee whoever worked in the shop on your truck wasn't happy, either. We had several of these projects at the shop in the years I worked there, and I could never spend the amount of time required to do a "quality" job. "Cut corners. Work on "your" time. Yeah, right." One of the reasons I left. Shop******s like us were forced to do sub par work to get it done & out of the way of the paying (insurance) jobs. In the end, you get what you pay for & nobody's happy. The customer thinks he's paying through the nose and should get a show winner, & the shop owner just wants to collect your cash and be rid of you. They don't care about glory on a sign, for the most part...unless business is slow...

 

Judge Judy wouldn't side with the shop owner.

 

19Fordy..is pretty much right on ..and all I'm sayin is for the information given to form a dicusscuion on somebodys reputation was pretty one sided and the pictures of the work in progress looked o.k. to me....I don't know either person and wasn't really lookin for a duel, I just expressed my opinon..I have run into dreamers before, who couldn't afford the dream, after the wife and kids left and the realitys of life set in... I thought the work looked fine...I don't think I'll ever have a riddler car ,,or wannabe...I wouldn't pass judgement on the shop doing the work untill he had the opportunity to explain the actuations against him...my right ..fatchuk

 

Oh, I know. I've been on both sides of this fence. Kev (mercman) and I worked at the same shop, at different times. I saw alot of people who would bring in absolute***** and expect it polished back to show room new. I also have had my daily (a 2000 Silverado) smashed while parked in front of my house and repaired. I know how people cut corners. You can see some of it in my truck. I got out of the autobody biz because of that.

I can say this one thing that I am absolutely sure of...

To do a GOOD job, it will take time. And a GOOD job costs money. LOTS of money. And unless you can do it yourself, be prepared to not get exactly what you want for the price you want to pay.

I am sorry for sounding harsh to ya 'chuk. But I have been on the "screwed" side of the fence more than the "screwer" side...

Jay

 

[ QUOTE ]
I feel for ya Scrape....really.
I'm lucky enough to have a good buddy that does my body work when I can afford him. When I asked hiim how much he'd charge me to body-work and paint my 50 chevy sedan delivery [that I'd bought from him and had had him do the rockers and 1/2 quarters], he told me between 10 and 12 thousand!!!!
While it was way outa my price range, at least he was honest.. I've heard many horror stories like yours. We've even got a local guy [with several bad personal "habits"] that will take work in his shop, quote a fair price and tear the car apart. He'll jack the price up abouot 3 times the original estimate and have the car towed to his private, fenced building. He immediatelly slaps a lein on the car and if the owner doesn't come up with the cash in 30 days, the car is legally his! I hate***** like this..
And people wonder why my cars are seldom painted.


[/ QUOTE ] That guy's lucky that someone hasnt kicked the***** out of him, or worse.

 

[ QUOTE ]
I was in lookin at some of yer pictures and if they were taken in the shop where they were doing the work ..it looked pretty good to me...I can tell you from experience that there ain't no such thing as a budget if your doing it on a budget do it yerself and quit*****in whinning...it no small task to turn a truck into a gold chainer...you post one small picture and expect every one to jump on your side cause you ain't happy with the bill...I sure couldn't criticize anyones work with what you posted here ...building a show car or truck out of a 50 year old truck ain't easy or cheap...or done quick if you got other work that pays the bills..if you ain't happy that's your problem but from what you posted and from your pictures I was not able to fault the person doing the work........if you gotta pay somebody to do what you can't do...then get a loan ..but don't whine cause it cost more than you thought...tough ..but I don't know how you can ever put a price on this kind of work...it takes what it takes and costs to get it there .....my opinon..fatchuk

[/ QUOTE ]

Well Fat........let me fill ya in a wee bit......We started on this truck in 1999. The body man KNEW what I wanted and was more than willing to help me get it there. Hell,the artist concept picture was even approved by him.He told the artist what we wanted! He completed the first part of the fabrication,roughed in,and came in 3 grand over his estimate. I never******ed,I paid the man. I brought it home,installed the drivetrain,wired it,plumbed it and brought it to life. I DROVE the damn thing BACK down to his shop for completion. We agreed on an hourly rate and work commenced.My***** STILL managed to get put on the back burner quite a few times. I never******ed until I went into the shop one day,and one of his men,was sanding on my front fender.IT WAS THE SAME FENDER THAT HE HAD PUT FILLER ON,AND HAD BEEN SANDING ON, EVERY DAY FOR THE PAST 4 DAYS.That is when I realised I was being used,and put a stop to the work,LAST FEBRUARY. Suspecting(more like KNOWING) I was getting shafted,I ASKED for an estimate to completion.At this point he had been on the truck over 2 years. Knowing WHAT he was building and what he had left to do, he gave me an estimate of 10 grand. I told him to begin the work AGAIN,(remember,this was Feb 03) and we agreed to settle the labor every two weeks. Memorial Day weekend,,when I paid him,(at that point we were at 6 g's of the 10 g est.)I realized he was going WAY over the estimate,and I sent him a letter detailing problems I had seen in the shop over the last 10 to 12 months.Like stuff being done,redone and redone yet again.Poor planning,poor management of time,tools not put back or cleaned up,so many cars in the shop,his men had to step over, under around,and through,to work on stuff.Body,paint and upholstery work all being done in the SAME BIG ROOM! The bad work habits and inefficiancy were staggering and costing ME money! Overspray on every thing,chrome damaged,you name it,the problem existed.I was ttrying to point out to him that the poor planning and the bad work habits were costing everyone money. At that point,he agreed to complete it for the remainder of the estimate. I told him I was NOT going to hold him to the letter of the estimate.Hell,I know***** happens sometimes,I just didn't want to get to the end of a 10,000 est.,and have him come back telling me he needed ANOTHER 10 or 15 G's.I admit,he was so far into me at that point,I HAD to let him work on it and try to get some of my money back thru labor.........Fastforward to this past week. he got my frame under paint and I went to pick it up so I could begin the final****embly. it had a couple of dry spots on,and spot or two where the paint was thin. No biggy,that can be touched up. when I went to pick up the differential,I realized there was no filler primer on it at all. He had just cleaned it, pissed on a THIN coat of etching primer,shot the color and cleared it.I was even willing to deal with THAT,but when I saw the unfinished body work on some parts,AND the COMPLETE lack of clear coat in places on others,I went ballistic and called his**** on it. WE got pissed at each other, and he told me to come get my*****. I did. THEN, when I get my***** home and get to looking at some of the stuff,that he was READY TO PAINT........
GGRRRRRRR...........
I have to admit,some of the work was O.K.but at the later stages,shit started to get shorted. What is really a shame is,the kid CAN do quality work when he wants to. Maybe I was expecting to much,but at this point neither one of us is happy. FWIW, I am out 42,000.00 cash money,just in LABOR, over 3 years,not counting the ORIGINAL money,my truck is in pieces,still not painted and needs MORE work to get it done.You be the judge.

 

OH YA,this was a 65,000 mile all original RUST FREE,running driving truck when we started...........

 

I had the same type of problem one with one of my cars. I was more then reasonable and patient, a job that was promised to me in 2 weeks took 5 1/2 months! What really pissed me off the most was when I finally blew up and asked when the hell it would be done the guy acted like I was the one who was being unreasonable and had expectations that were to hi! The whole thing pretty much soured me on the car he was working on and I just lost interest in it.

 

i've heard this story a hundred times. you take your***** to the body shop with and agreed estimate. 3 years later you finally get pissed enough to got get your***** thats unfinished. if these*****ers don't want to do the work then why do they take it in.

 

SKR8PN...sounds like you were being completely fair......

I can say that, from being on both sides of the fence.....

Av8 summed it up best a while back.....It's hard to run a shop and keep everybody happy..

on the same note......it's better to have friends then enemies.......

hope you don't lose interest on that truck...it sure will be nice when finished.

 

i usually don't give my opinion on topics like this,but i can see both side of the story.....you think you got screwed by the shop, and the shop thinks you have too high of expectations... this seams to happen a lot in the construction or rebuilding of special interest vehicles, whether they are hot rods, restorations, custom motorcycles or what ever. when you take a project from shop to shop for various work , you are at their mercy and you WILL end up eith too much money in the project. that's why i always tell people who are new (i know you're not new) to this hobby and want to build a car....if you can't do the majority of the work yourself,or with help from buddies....you are better off just buying a finsished car you like from someone else. it's cheaper,easier,less stressfull..and there a lot of good deals out there now

no offense skr8rn.....$42,000 is a lot to put into a 1938 dodge pick up ...i think you got screwed ,i just don't know who's fault it was, yours for giving him the money,or him for taking it

 

sorry man, thats a******.
your "body guy" is a punk!

I did an old tool box for a customer.
gave him a quote, and a time frame.
I had some serious family problems, and I had the box for 6 months, 5 months longer then I quoted, I charged the guy only the cost of materials.

it was not the fault of the customer, (you)
he should step up and be responsible ( body man)

this customer has come back to me.
I doubt you will.

again sorry!

 

When my goat was being done, there was a hail storm in our area, what was to be done in 6 months was 1 year and 6 months. The line about the insurance money always made me mad because money is money. I know that they mostly replace parts on wrecked cars nad possibly make more money on the mark up on parts, where the goat mostly needed some minor repair and prep work before painting. I was pleased with the job they done on the goat and I also was not to upset with the other cars put ahead of the goat since most were daily drivers for owners. I just don't like it when insurance money is said to be better than money on non insured business. Shops should bid work based on what they want to profit not just to get work, that way everybody is happy and knows what to expect.

 

HEY FLINT MICHIGAN HAMBERS!!! Does this guy sound like anyone we know???

 

yep...it sure does!

sorry to hear about your luck...that's alot of dough to spend..42 grand is ALOT of money....would have been better off buying a restored truck at that price. either that or building a garage set up for painting/bodywork and taking a bump and paint course at the local community college.
hope everything works out in the end for ya.

 

[ QUOTE ]
SKR8PN...sounds like you were being completely fair......

I can say that, from being on both sides of the fence.....

Av8 summed it up best a while back.....It's hard to run a shop and keep everybody happy..

on the same note......it's better to have friends then enemies.......

hope you don't lose interest on that truck...it sure will be nice when finished.

[/ QUOTE ]

Radshit,I tried every way I know how to be fair with this guy. I even helped him buy equipment that he needed in the shop. During the local car show here in town,my wife and I not only helped him staff the open house/tours he put on,hell we even bought all the damn soda pop and chips to give away during the show! Not once,but TWICE! And yes,I think 42 g's is LOT of money as well. From his side,he believes he has earned every penney because he did put a LOT of hours in it. What he fails to see,is that a LOT of those hours(that I paid for) were wasted. The picture of the busted weld on the running board is prime example. I paid him to build all the body mounts and get the body on the frame. I paid again during the first "final****embly" I then paid to put it together again! This last time was when they discovered the right running board and the front fender did not line up properly.(after two prior****embly's to get the body lines correct!) THAT is when he jacked the running board up to get it to align with the fender. The picture was the result of that jacking around. When they got the fender and the board where they wanted it,he coated the top of the running board AND the front fender, with filler to get every thing to "flow" as he likes to put it. Believe it or not,the other side of this board is in "final primer" as was "ready to paint"

And then my doctor wondered why my blood pressure was so high the other day

 

Fatschmuk,

I've been in several situations where I've done my goddamn best, and been reeeaaal patient, but the contractor is just a total jerk, and the last thing I would want is some smart**** shouting his mouth off about how I should just bend over and take it up the**** because yada yada.....

You aren't related to the painter are you???

 

SKR8PN,
Hey dude, that looks like the results of MY welding!

Maybe I could earn a crust in a stateside body shop?

 

Only another 42 GRAND and it can look like this !






Sorry man........I have never met you, you seem like a decent man but you are WAY upside down .........

$42,000 paint (so far)
a couple grand to buy the truck
$5,000 in the motor ......estimate
$2,000 .....wheels and tires
$5,000 to $8000 in other stuff

I see well over 60 grand and at least 10 to 15 grand more ( paint and interior......low estimate)

BARE MINIMUM........75 grand in a 38 truck......

But it will be different.......

Hang in there......You are too deep to quit....

I have been there and done that.......have the recipts to prove it....... Race cars will put brokeness in your household......

 

Sure am glad I decided to do my own body work (substandard) and shoot my DP90 in my garage. My wife didn't like the overspray, my neighbors didn't like the noise and smell, and I still have sand all over the place from blasting in my driveway. It's not perfect, but holy*****...... three years and thousands of dollars for nothing. I had a guy give me a quote of $2000 for each rear fender on my '35 Ford pickup truck?!! I think I gave live with some imperfections and put that kind of money toward another project.

 

after the first 2 years, when you started critiquing the shop conditions and told him to STOP, the relationship should have ended there.