1952-59 Ford Bad Transmission

Well I finally got the car running ok and had the drive shaft made, Got it installed and the car will not move...It just make a grinding noise. I know its turning inside because the speedo shows im moving when i race the engine but the car isnt... I dont know what it is besides a bad transmission

 

If it weren't for real bad luck. Hope it's something simple. If the speedometer is moving that should mean the trans is turning. How is the rear end?
Out of curiosity, how much was the drive shaft? I had one made today, 58½ inches, $190.

 

sorry to hear your luck!! i just had a driveline from stock rear to th350 ****** made around 61 inchs long all brand new and had to step it up to 3" due to length for 338.00 . the turn around time was 4 hours....i brought them my old driveline 2 3/4"and the th350 slip yoke i had and they would have charged me 290.00 so i went all new ....you got a good deal for 190.00

 

If the speedi indicating speed, this would suggest that output shaft is turning. If the tailshaft fits the spline of the gearbox snug and will not turn when the gearbox is in park, the problem is in the diff. Jack the rear of the car withe wheels off the ground and see what happens when you put in gear with motor running.
My guess is the diff is shot.
Regards

 

Well I would be looking around at what you have done before I would be blaming the transmission. That motor and transmission drove fine right into my garage before removing it.

 

I would have to agree, if the speedo is moving, the transmission's output shaft is spinning. Either the yoke you have on the front of the driveshaft doesn't match the transmission's output shaft splines, or as mentioned above, you have an issue with your rear axle.

Your next move is also suggested above- put the car in gear and see if the driveshaft is spinning: spinning = rear axle issue, not spinning = yoke issue...

 

Stig, It cost me $151 and mine was also 58 1/2"
Fordsbyjay all I have done is bolt the flywheel to the engine,put the clutchplatein,bolted the pressureplate on then bolted the bellhousingon then bolted the trans on. I dont see where I could have done it wrong its pretty simple, it only goes on one way.
What it is doing is...After I got the engine to run I could hear like a clunking noise while the engine was idleing, I Figured it was the trans turning So I made sure it was in Neutral...(I can move the stick shift in any direction) But its still in gear so Im not sure what is causing that because there is only three rods that connecct to the trans and they are in the location there supposed to be. So once I pushed it backwards out of the shop I could hear a noise like when you push a car thats in gear(the gears turning in the trans) but it was real easy to push. I got in and cranked it up and you can hear the gears turning and the speedo goes up like the car is moving but the drive shaft isnt turning. I jacked it up and I cant turn the drive shaft by hand and the wheels dont turn when i race the engine. This is what makes me think its the trans instead of the rearend. Also It drove fine when i pulled the old engine and trans out a couple months ago. I did check that the output shaft would turn when i put the engine and trans together in order to line the splines up going through the clutchplate.
Mjlangley, The yolk is from the same car that the trans came out of so I know it is the right one. Does the yolk have to be ALL the way in in order for it to work? When I measured for the drive shaft I had it all the way in and it was 59 1/2" and when i went to the drive shaft shop the guy told me I needed to subtract an inch for the axle to move up and down and also in order to get the rear universal joint in. He said it would be a bear otherwise and might bind up when the axle went over bumps etc..
does this make since? Thanks for you guys help I appreciate it.

 

as far as the yoke it needs to be 3/4 to a 1 inch away from the trans(when you measure you have the rear axle under pressure of car i.e sitting on ground or jackstands under axle) so it has play for going over bumps and pot holes like the trans guy said ...

 

if you take the drive shaft loose from the rear end and push it into the trans, can you turn it with the trans in gear? with the car in the air so you can get under it and the weight on the rearend like the cars weight sitting on jack stands under the rearend. how much dose the drive shaft move in and out of the trans when not bolted to the rear. just acting like you put it where it gose. then push it forward into the trans.how much dose it move?

 

Very odd problem!

Did you do anything to the shifter? Maybe it's not going into gear all the way and once there's a load on it, it free-wheels?

The fact that the speedometer is moving but the car won't doesn't make sense...

 

The speedometer drive gear is on the output shaft of the trans. Drive shaft was made too short and splines aren't engaging yoke or wrong yoke was used on driveshaft. Pull off driveshaft and check splines and yoke for engagement. Not the first time I saw it happen.

 

Ok I will check it again tomorrow and post the findings thanks again for your help

 

Well I got it up in the air on stands and this is what i've found so far. The drive shaft does turn the rear tires (I can do it by hand) The splines are good in the Yolk and on the output shaft and you can also turn the transmission with the drive shaft by hand. The yolk is only out about 1" to 1-1/2" from being pushed all the way in when its mounted. I'm wondering would the clutch cause the problem im having? If so i dont know what I could have done to cause it.... the clutch arm doesnt have any pressure on it like you would be pushing the clutch in part ways or something... at first i thought maybe the clutch is slipping but i cant see how that could be happening because the throwout bearing isnt pressing up against the pressure plate enough to loosen the clutch. I still cant figure out what the deal is with the stick shift, its always in gear no matter where you move it...you can feel it going into gear 1st thru 4th and reverse and when you put it in neutral (sloppy stick) the trans gears are still turning... I'm lost on what to check next. Thanks guys

 

Sounds like a problem in the clutch somewhere. if there is no load on the clutch forrk, it sounds like it's come off the pivot point in the bellhousing. Maybe it's rattling around and causing your " grinding " noise. Perhaps you can summarize the issues and your obsevations in one note. Makes it easier to diagnose. You know, the shin bones connected to the knee bone.............

 

could you have put the clutch disk in backwards? in the end i would say you will have to pull it back out and check it all out

 

It looks like you've checked the function of everything (clutch fork, throw out bearing contact, pressure plate contact, etc). I would have to agree with old ladys mad and pull it all back out and check it. Has the transmission been opened up before or do you know for certain that it was operational before you installed it? I've seen people have issues with junkyard/swap meet transmissions. Just my $.02

 

Does it? It's only simple if you know what you are doing.

Sounds like your throw out bearing cam off if there is no pressure on the fork. It could explain your banging noise when the car is idling. Your clutch in normally engaged and when you push the clutch pedal down it dis-engages the transmission. Are you sure you have the shift rods hooked up properly? If it was in gear like you keep saying then the car would take off as soon as you start it. Is it doing this?

 

The speedometer goes right on the output shaft. Of the speedometer is turning the the wheels have to be turning or something is wrong at the driveshaft.

 

I had this same problem once on an OT car. It turned out that the yolk was too big. I had to pull the driveshaft and change the yolk.

 

Does it? It's only simple if you know what you are doing. Thanks for the Remark Jason I never Claimed I was a Mechanic I am just doing what I can to get an old car on the road....
Anyways... Here's a pic of the Stick shift Linkage, Does this look correct? I'm wondering if the one Linkage on the bottom is in the correct position.

 

Mark, I am not trying to be a **** but you are the one that always insists it is right and are quick to blame everything else when in fact it is more then likely just something you did wrong. Not bashing on you either, we all had to learn at some point and we all had similar problems the first time we did things. Newbies in any hobby always think everything is so easy, just bolt it together, piece of cake. If it was that easy then why would it take 4 years of apprenticeship or two straight years of schooling to get a mechanics license. The key is paying attention to the details because it is not as simple as you think. Now that doesn't mean one can't learn and figure it out on your own but you have to be prepared to make some mistakes and re-do stuff often. Trust me when I say 99% of have been there...The other 1% had dads that were mechanics.


Btw, you still haven't answered whether or not the car drives off when you start it. Is it really in gear or not?

 

Jason, I am not insisting it is right...and I'm not trying to be a "know it all" or blame everything else... I may well have installed something wrong I know I make mistakes. But I have installed a Manual transmission before, this isnt the first one I have ever put in I have rebuilt a CJ7 from the ground up by myself and have had to work on every car i have ever had so i guess what im saying is I'm not so new to mechanical equipment that I have no idea at all. I appreciate your help I really do so dont take it the wrong way I am just trying to describe what I am seeing and what the transmission is doing on a computer and put into words (which is hard to do with out a video to hear and actually see movement) I dont mind re-doing what I have already done if I made a mistake for sure! The thing is it wasnt together when I got it from you it was in pieces...so there's no way for me to remember how it came apart and know if im installing it incorrectly especially since i dont have a manual on a 64-1/2 falcon. The car doesnt drive off when i start it it just sets there running...I can go through the gears with the stick shift and the only gear I have to push the clutch in to get it into gear is Reverse and then it Grinds alot and then it feels like it tries to move backward but feels like the clutch is slipping or something. (doesnt do this in forward gears) I put the clutch plate in like others i have done before with the (Tophat) toward the transmission (Dont know if thats what its called) the part that sticks out with all the springs in it... The only thing that seemed different from others i have done before is once i tightened the pressure plate down the clutch plate doesnt move at all in other words i could have pushed the input shaft through the clutch plate and into the pilot bushing without even using the alignment tool. The ones i did before i had to use the alignment tool or the clutch plate would move out of position easily, could this mean it wasnt installed correctly or is this normal? From what I've come up with so far is that I'm pretty sure Yolk is good its tight on the input shaft and doesnt spin around the shaft or something like that, the output shaft is turning when the drive shaft isnt installed (I cant tell if it does when the yolk is in there because i cant see it but the speedo is turning), the rearend is good I can turn the drive shaft by hand and it turns the rear wheels and visa versa. So im left with believing it has something to do with the clutch. I am currently re-doing the master cylinder/slave cylinder hydraulic clutch setup in order to rule this part out. Once i get that done in-between jobs I will repost whether it helped or not. Thanks for all the posts guys I am reading each one and trying your suggestions.

 

I have added three yellow circles:



***umption #1: you have a Hurst Compe***ion Plus shifter...

If so, the rear-most circle is a slot that aligns with holes in all three shift levers- you run a 3/16" ( I think that's the right size...) drill bit through there to make sure that the shift control is in nuetral.

The front two circles are over the trans shift levers- I'm pretty sure they are upside down, but someone else should confirm.

***umption #2: Your trans looks like a torino or fairlane shiift location. If so, I can't figure out how to attach a .pdf file to this post but you can find the instructions here:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HUU-3737638/?rtype=1

 

Ok- I just read your last post about installing the trans and how it went through the clutch disc really easy. Do the clutch disc's internal splines match the transmission's input shaft splines? If it went in real easy, maybe the clutch disc splines are too large for your input shaft and it spins once you try to load it?

Also, here's the instructions for a Falcon application shifter:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HUU-3737638/?rtype=1

 

Thanks mj your right! From the drawing it looks like the back two rods are backwards as soon as I get back in from offshore I will swap them around and see what that does. I appreciate the reply and the link it helps a lot!

 

Here is a picture I found with a quick google image search.

 

Oh yeah, the clutch disc splines match the input shaft perfectly I had to spin the output shaft to get it to line up and go through. What I mean about easily was that the clutch plate didn't try to move around when I was pushing the shaft through thanks again for yourr time on this

 

Thanks jason I did a search through aol and didn't come up with any. When I got the trans the lttle tabs were on it in ther position there in now and were tight so I figured that's the way they were used before that's the reason I didn't do more research on this part. I guess I shouldn't ***ume as much LOL thanks for your help and time also.

 

I believe the operative word here is speedometer, if that moves then the tail shaft has to be moving, if thats moving then the clutch and linkage are before the problem and the only thing left is the spline or the rearend. Can you turn the driveshaft with the wheels on the ground, if so, then I'd be looking into the rearend. Gary

 

I thought I had the linkage positions figured out from the pics you guys posted until i found this one while looking up information on the web...does anyone know which position the rods should be in?