1952-59 Ford Bad Transmission

Gary, I tried turning the drive shaft with the wheels on the ground and I cannot turn it by hand it seems firm...

 

Don't know where you are at with the actuator cylinder. With someone pushing the clutch pedal down, can you see the appropriate movement at the clutch fork? We used hydraulics on a T5, but the application required the opposite movement to what you need. hope you get this sorted out

 

Crobrd, Yes I have the Slave cyl pulling the clutch arm in the right direction I had to go with a pull type because of where the header comes down but it is going in the right direction. Thanks man
I just cant figure out what position the shift lever linkage is supposed to be in...there are endless ways to hook them up and from the pics I see on here and on the web and from Hurst they are all different. You would think a ford 4 speed toploader would only have one design but it seems it didnt. So aggravating

 

Try turning the levers to match the red transmission in the center picture it looks the closest to your toploader,I agree looks like you have your front two levers upside down and don't forget to realign the neutral gate after you flip them.

 

Thanks Guys, Three things I found today First is I tried putting all three like the red one in the pics above and it wont shift through any gears in those positions (Like its Locked up) so I tried every other configuration I could come up with and I cant get it to work. I can take the whole ***embly off and i can switch the gears by hand so I know it isnt stuck in gear or anything like that so i just have to figure out what the correct position for the rods are...I tried the layout like the PDF file pic from hurst says it should be and nothing....I'm lost on this one. But I also found out the Grinding noise WAS the Yoke....It isnt the correct yoke for that transmission, I took the universal joint out and just used the yoke and could see that it fits on the splines and as long as there is pressure up or down on it it will grab some teeth (making me think it was good when it was installed) but if it is perfectly level it will spin on the output shaft....So I will have to find one that will fit and see it the universal joint will fit it if not i will have to take it to the drive shaft shop again and see if they can do something with it. Thanks to all the guys that told me the yoke was not the right one you were right! Thats why I come to you for this info cause your the experts in this field and it is very much appreciated. After I get the Yoke installed and the Shift lever linkage figured out I hope this will solve my problem and I can get on to getting the exhaust installed and be ready to ride! I also found out that the last pic i posted is a 3 speed with over drive not to be confused with the 4 speed I have...it seems they used the 3 speed w overdrive for a couple years and its supposedly a weak transmission or at least not a heavy duty one from what i read on the web about them.
Jeff what do you mean about realigning the neutral gate? I Put a nail through the hole that MJ said in his post with all three holes lined up is this what your talking about or something else? Thanks alot

 

Sounds like the neutral gate adjustment. On a Hurst shifter, you should be able to put a 1/4 inch rod through the shifter when it's in neutral. This aligns the shifter with the neutral in the trans and allows you to shift the gears without jamming up. Leave the shifter in nuetral, find neutral on the transmission arms, then connect your shift rods properly. You may have to adjust the rods to meet the trans arms to connect them, but that's how they're adjusted. Don't move the trans arms to adjust. With everything correct, it should shift fine.

 

C'mom guys, its YOKE. Yolk is part of an egg.

 

Thanks streetdreams the problem is finding neutral in the trans arms... no matter which way I set them the trans will turn by the output shaft...So I cant tell if its in neutral or not. I have searched and searched the web trying to find something that shows what position the levers are in when in neutral but to no avail. I did find something sayin the front toward the engine was 3rd and 4th and the middle one is 1st and 2nd and the last (Towards the rear) being Reverse, But thats about it.

 

After Many MF'S and SOB'S and other words I made up whilst trying to figure this thing out I finally got the shifter connected in its proper positions and it will go into each gear so im posting this pic with arrows just in case someone else ever runs into the same issue . Now all I need is a YOKE in order to see if theres anything else that wants to act up on me. LoL Thanks for all the responses on this thread I appreciate them

 

nice pics sircampsalot. had the same trouble with the linkage in a gto i had. finally got it all hooked up, but it was backwards. got tired of crawling under neath to see if i had it right and finally just drove it. nobody ever asked to borrow my car tho. this was back in the very early eighties while i was just a poor broke service man in the air force. sold the darn thing and less than a year later, they were being snapped up for crazy money. i think i paid 400 bucks for it in 81, and it needed a clutch. doh!!

 

LoL I hear ya Dwaynerz ...So you drove it with the shift working backwards!? Lol I bet that was fun but I bet it was a good deterant for thieves! I am having trouble finding a Yoke for mine it is a 25 spline output shaft and the yoke Jason gave me was a 28 spline so that was why it was grinding and all but now trying to find a 25 spline that has the same O.D. on the barrel of 1.5" and will fit a output shaft that is 1.11" is not working out well. The driveshaft shop can find everything else but the one I need (Of Course) The funny thing about the linkage on the shifter was that every configuration I found was different than what I needed LoL GO FIGURE.

 

You might want to recount the splines on the output shaft and the yoke you have just to double check,check this out for reference: http://www.dennysdriveshaft.com/c8_transmission__t_case_slip_yokes.html Fords are only 28 or 31 spline,Mopars with the 904's used a 26 spline sometimes refered to as a 25 spline

 

drove it for about 3 months, and then the novelty wore off. a buddy helped me switch it around, and all was good.

 

Thanks Jeff, I counted them its 25 Splines. They did put 25 spline yokes in some Toploaders in the 60's but not alot of them. Most common ones were the 28 and 31 splined yokes thats why its so hard to find one. I'm sure I will find one it is just going to take some looking around I guess. The guy that put my driveshaft together is trying to find one for me he has alot on the shelf just not that one. Thanks alot

 

Well here it is! Ford part# C1UZ-4841-A it was used from 1960-66 in Comet.Falcon Mustang 3spd cars 6 cyl cars and 64-66 Mustang 4 speed cars,you might check these guys out who did my driveshaft for a good used one: www.****sdriveshaft.com phone is 1(602)244-8115 Mac's shows new ones at $95.99.

 

Great to hear that you got the trans figured out!

Depending on the year and engine, there were three (to my knowledge) different toploader output shaft splines/sizes: Early stuff, like up to mid-'65, is 25 spline, then all later SB and 390 stuff is 28 spline, and all heavy duty and big block stuff is 31 spline. If yours is out of a Falcon, it's either 25 or 28 spline. Is there a tag on the p***. side front of the trans, in between the bellhousing mounting ears? This will tell you what 'vintage' the trans is and may help ID what yoke you need. The ID location:



And what the tag means:

http://www.davidkeetoploaders.com/idchart1.htm

 

Thanks Jeff I appreciate that, I couldnt use that one due to the diameter of the barrel it was 1-3/8" and the one i need has a 1-1/2" BUT it did help me find the right one at http://mustangtek.com (Pn# C5DZ-4841-B) I appreciate your help on this and i though i found one at Cajunjohn's out of texas but they said that they are no longer made so i called the guy you suggested and he didnt have one either. Everybody says ****er quit making them so i would have to find one on a shelf somewhere but everyone i have called from texas to california, connecticut, all say they sold the last one they had last week LoL, BUT SUPPOSEDLY I found a used one in Oregon that the guy is sending me that is supposed to be the right size we'll see when i get it in. Thanks Jeff for your help

Thanks MJ I wanted to look at that tag your talking about but with the trans mounted in the car I cant get up in there to see it LoL. So I just went and bought a Micrometer to take all the measurements on the shaft and Seal ID. I was able to get all the casting numbers off the Main case and Tail housing that let me know that the maincase was made for a 65 to 67 Falcon or mustang and the tailhousing was made for a 64-73 mustang or cougar so it looks like they just used whatever parts were laying around the Ford warehouse when making this one! Thanks for your help also man its very much appreciated.

 

Mark , concerning your trans numbers , Ford used the same part patterns for many different cars . You also can't just say Ford must have used any part laying around to build your trans . The trans is 40+ years old so there were many people working on that trans so anything could have happened . C3 , C4 , C5 , C6 were all the same . The problem came up since they were all the same , they would use last years parts before the new years run . So years did overlap many times but the parts are the same .
You have a really good set up but remember when you are building a hotrod , you have to go with the flow sometimes when you are making your own set up . That's the fun of this great hobby . You have to remember to always double check all the parts to make sure they fit and will work properly before you ***embly it all up and then something doesn't work ! Also that drive shaft guy you had that made yours , did he tell you what spline count you had or did you ? If he did I would be chewing on his *** for the wrong parts and make him make good on his work ! Don't say the guy you bought the set up from sold you something that didn't work ! He sold you a good set up dirt cheap ! That trans is worth more than what you paid for everything alone !
When things go wrong please don't just ***ume it was the last guy that sold you the engine and trans , then sold you bad parts ! Make sure all the parts fit first . You don't always get the correct parts from the parts store either . Just remember they are kids that can't change their own oil and the chinese that made those parts might have put the wrong part in the wrong box ! Always take the part you are replacing with you to match it up with the part that worked !
One of the best things you can do that will help you more than all of us telling you how to build your car is to buy some good books that will show you how to do the job right the first time and what parts to get . You won't have $60 in 3 or 4 great books to use over and over . I have over 35 books that I use all the time . They are priceless and can get you out of a jam much faster than waiting for a reply from one of use to guess what your problem is . You can also Google and find so much on the internet for free and save them to a folder for future use . I have tons saved on my laptop that I use all the time !
Mark , I am NOT trying to beat you down ! I have helped you out many time by emails , right ? I am just trying to save you time and a good way to find out what the problems are and how to fix them . You can get some really good books at great prices from Amazon ! I buy a lot of books from them !
I am glad to hear you are getting to the final stages of your project .So just take your time so everything will work properly and never rush a job !
If you want some good books to buy I will be happy to post them for you !

Jim

 

Ok thanks Jim, but as far as the guy that sold me the setup goes....He sold me the engine and trans for $300 and I appreciate that that is alot lower than I would have found else where for sure I couldnt beat that price if I tried...that being said he shouldnt say Oh heres the driveshaft for that trans if it isnt ....and then say dont blame the parts. Enough said on that subject. I thank you for your help and all the help from others on here it was and is appreciated. But it seems that when I ask a question or try to explain what I have You and Jason have decided I'm a burden to deal with and am a complete *****. So I will say my goodby's and finish this project on my own. Like I said I do appreciate the wisdom the people on here have loaned me but I believe I have been beat on enough now. thanks I'm Out

 

I think it would be a mistake for you to leave,not everyone always can put into words things they mean exactly the right way every time we all are human and sometimes we blow it,sometimes we have a bad day and we let things out in frustration without thinking how we come across to others.There isn't a person on this planet that isn't guilty of having foot in the mouth disease at times,let it slide man up and move on,tomorrows another day.A lot of members are following your build and that is how we learn things by sharing successes and failures and finding solutions to them,it wouldn't be right to leave those folks hanging.

 

Mark, I have helped you out a lot when you would email me at home . As I have always told anyone that emailed me at home , ASK all the questions you want . I do this all the time to people on different forums and even Craigs List when people ask for help !
I have NEVER CALLED YOU A ***** EITHER so don't even go there with that totally incorrect comment !
Sorry you feel that you have to leave ! You just took tings the WRONG way and I even said I AM NOT TRYING TO BEAT YOU DOWN , RIGHT ?
I was just making a point that you can't just go and blame the other guy for NOT checking to see if the part was the correct one in the first place .

BTW that was the first post I made here on your build in a long time ! So why are you being this way ? Kustom builds are a PITA but that's hot rodding ! You are just frustrated because you are so close to the end to drive it and things are going wrong . It happens to all of us !

Jim

 

sircampsalot,this isnt any of my buisness. but this thread is out there for everyone to read and comment. so ive read and now im gonna comment.ive read this twice to make sure i comprehend it.i dont reallt see anything that should make you go to the extreme of quiting.everyone does not comprehend things the same.one sentence can have 10 different meanings to 10 diferent people.could this be the case here? no skin off my nose if you do but consider what you will be throwing away.one of the best resources for information out there.and ALOT of good people.i have a really hard time trying to convey what im saying sometimes to people.(brain damage from a bike wreck) and i have pissed off everbody from a cop to my wife.(much had rather piss off a cop than the wife) but i can usually remedy the problem.if there is one pm the guilty or better yet call him.you can usually fix it.and do it just between you and him. we dont all need to see your buisness.just some advise from a old guy thats been there and done that. good luck with what ever you decide. ken