I'm doing a refresh on a SBC, searching the internet says to use a 240 grit ball hone for cast rings. Internet also says to keep honing until after you wipe the bores they cross hatch is shiny, not dull. So, regardless of the internet, looking for opinions to be sure... 240 grit for cast rings? 450-500 RPMs? Shiny pattern? I'm in the process of making a holder to use a table top drill press I have, save the old man some work
I use a hand drill, i run the drill pretty keen with a lot of wd40, and when I'm satisfied with my efforts, i run the drill slow and move up and down quickly to achieve my cross hatch. Honing advice from a paint guy
I just did one, same thing, 240 grit and cast rings. Only did the honing for around 15 seconds each cylinder with variable speed drill. I don't think you are going to be able to move the hone up and down fast enough using a drill press. It is my understanding you want the cross hatch at around 45 degrees.
I used to hone my cylinders with a old drill motor that ran quite slow. Kept an eye on cross hatch and used kerosene. Used cast iron rings and never had one smoke.
Typically between 30-45 degrees, sometimes as much as 60, depends on stroke length and what then engine is being used for. Too shallow and the rings can chatter, too steep and oil consumption can increase Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
We used to call it breaking the glaze on the cylinder walls. I used solvent and a ball type glaze breaker. Just watch it on the bottom and top of the cyls. Top it will fly out and get your attention. You'll figure it out lol. Keep the cyl wet with a sprayer or use an old oiler can type pump oiler. Believe it or not I have put iron rings with a moly top ring in an engine without honing and it worked ok. Didn't use a drop of oil afterwards. Don't try that with a chrome ring set though!! Happy rebuild!!
Don’t use the drill press. You don’t need it and it’s not going to save you any work. I did a re-ring on a 283 with a hand drill and the ball hone using regular solvent and just made sure that the bores were clean and then the cross hatch was visible and distinct. The 60 degrees is about what the angle is. Worked out and ran really good for a long time.
Oh and use white paper towels and trans fluid to clean the bores. When the towels come up clean, so are the cyl walls. JMO. Lippy
I may get ostracized a bit for this, but I use a different "lube" medium. I start out with a really clean block, I usually do this in the morning before it gets too warm out, and start out using tepid water. WATER? What the ???. I use a coffee can with a fairly thick mix of Dawn Dish Soap and water, that I dip the ball hone into fairly frequently. Sort of a "clean-as-I-go" series of steps, and I use HOT water to final rinse everything off after the cylinder honing is complete. Really makes clean up easier than having to deal with petroleum based products. It seems to work well for me, and I'm a bit anal retentive when it comes to assembling a clean engine/transmission/whatever. Friends have thought I was nuts, and ya'll can too, and I do assemble things using oil/bearing lube. I use a variable speed drill, and have the air compressor and hoses/nozzle ready, and the brushes and clean rags ready to go after I'm done with the cylinder honing. AND, I have my OWN bottle of Dawn Dish Soap; I don't dare touch what's in the kitchen, that belongs to the little woman. I am Butch/56sedandelivery.
I too have used dish soap and water along with a dingle berry hone to achieve a cross hatch . Couldn't do it down in florida where the humidity is so high that the first cylinder would start to flash rust before I got to the last hole . So I just filled a coffee can full with mineral spirits and dipped the hone in and started honing . After honing I wash with Dawn dish soap and wipe the bores with atf and white paper towels and finish with a new microfiber towel. I usually have the machine shop hone the block if I bore the block . That way they can use torque plates to do the final hone. That's the finish I use for moly rings and low tension. It's about a 600 grit.
The word "hone" seems to mean different things to different folks. There are several types, and all have their purpose, but they do not all perform the same function. I lump them into two groups - flex hone and fixed hone. Flex hones are mostly used as glaze breakers. Typical are ball hone and spring loaded three stone hone. They will not correct out of round or taper in the cylinder. Great for a ring type refresh where the piston clearance, out of round, and taper are still acceptable for you purpose. If you need to correct the cylinder you will need to use a fixed stone adjustable hone.
You want to remove .003" with a flex/ball hone..? Each cylinder will take about 8 (or more) hours each of constant running... Mike
Thanks all. I've ball honed and 3 stone honed several blocks in the past, and really just winged it, I couldn't find my ball hone so went interneting for another, that's when I found several different "How To's", most of which was different and much more thorough than I used to do. Hence why I came here, I don't have the block apart yet (will just be a SBC 350, around 260 HP), but no ridge in it and my bore gauge shows about .001 taper from piston to top of bore, I'll know more when I tear it down. Once I have the block apart I'm taking it in for degunking and cam bearings. If the taper stays true I'll do the refresh at home, otherwise I'll have them rebuild it. Just planning ahead and hoping everything is fine I'm liking the Dawn soap idea, hadn't thought of that before.
I have always used ATF for honing and never had a problem. Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
Budget 36. I don't understand your statement ? You said if it was a hone and re ring you would do it. If it was a rebuild you would have them do it. Why not just buy the parts at a cheaper price than the machine shop is going to sell them to you. Get the machine work done .Vatted, cam bearings, bored and honed. Then take it home and assemble it yourself and save that money. They will charge you any where from $350.00 to 700.00 to screw it together and a good engine builder can slap a 350 together in a couple of hours if they did the machine work right. Pretty good pay for that. you will have enough in it to buy a crate motor or at least a good long block with a warranty. Just pick up the phone and dial 1-800- horsepower.
I'll have them do the machine work and fit the pistons, but I'll put it together. I'll get the parts through them, they pass a decent deal off to me. I don't mind them making a few bucks on the parts either. In fact they might even do better than I can for parts, for my heads I told them what spring/etc, I wanted and was less cost to me than I could get through Summit.
^^^^^^^^ Some machine shops are still reputable enough that they have loyal customers who enjoy doing business with them ...
Hey budget, Sounds like you have done this before. With no more taper than .001,,,,,man I would rering it and run it for years to come. Just clean the piston ring lands good to help the rings seal. A lot of good advice here already been given,,,,no set way cut in stone to do it. I have read ,,,to only use honing oil,,,,,but I never have ! I have used WD 40 for 40 years,,,,,never had any issue,,,,I like it the best personally. But,,,there are good suggestions here for lube too,,,,I might try some of them next time. I use both ball hones and 3 stone hones,,,I like them both. I use a 3 stone for the bulk of the honing,,,,then I finish with the ball hone. The reason being,,the ball hones are a little pricey,,,,and I don’t wear them out so quickly. I use an electric drill,,,,I think is 1500 rpm,,,,and I count the number of strokes I use,,and I time my stroke ,,,counting to myself,,,like a metronome,,or like compressions in a CPR situation . After one bore,,,I wipe clean and inspect,,,then do more strokes if needed. After I have one bore,,,,total the strokes,,,then do the other seven. Then I usually do a final hone with the ball hone,,,it has always worked good so far. Other people’s results might vary,,,,but there is no (one way) to do this either. Good luck. Tommy
When it comes to hone lubricants, I think that with flex hones you can get by with a long list of things. The stone load isn't very much. However with a fixed hone the stone load is significant and honing oil is usually required.
So if you have tapered cylinder walls top to bottom or out of round cyl walls how will flex ball hones cure the problem ?
Cast rings are pretty forgiving. I have even seen guys rough the cylinders up with sand paper when going back in with cast rings and never have a problem. Basically if you are rebuilding without an overbore all you are doing is breaking the glaze. A drill motor and a bottle brush (ball hone) is our safest bet they take away less material. A medium-ish grit is what you want with cast rings.
"So if you have tapered cylinder walls top to bottom or out of round cyl walls how will flex ball hones cure the problem" It won't. Only a fixed hone will take an out of round bore and get it back to round.
The answer to both is NO it won't a ball hone "glaze breaker" will not straighten out any imperfections it will just break the glaze on the cylinders and let cast rings seal. I use a three stone hone to break the glaze and prep my cylinders as I just feel it does a better job than ball hones but it still won't cut any taper, it just puts a nice cross hatch finish on the taper. I went out to hunt for my big adjustable hone to take a photo of it but it must be in the other tool box out in the other shed. That one has several grits of stones and can be used to actually bore a cylinder to an oversize and straighten out the bore but the guy doing it is going to be one tired bugger before the day is over. We used it to get those last few thousandths after boring a block and getting the cross hatch wanted. I'm pretty sure it is older than I am. As for lubing the stones when you use either a ball hone or spring loaded three stone hone I have used atf for the last 40 years and can't really say who got me started using that. I just put it in a squirt can and squirt it in the cylinders.
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