Technical Ball honing a block

It won't

 

The ball hones are very popular, because they give a perfect “ appearing” finish. The three stone hones will usually leave some areas of the cylinder unhoned. They will straighten the cylinders up a little but it takes a lot of time. Back in the previous century, when I was building my “ backyard” racing engines I spent a lot of time with my Sunnen hone!






Bones

 

I meant to mention, my 3 stone hones are fairly big )compared to brake cylinder hones), maybe 3 inches or so?

I have had issues with them in the bottom of bores chipping off, plus getting the pressure right is probably more than I want to deal with. The ball hones are kinda forgiving.

Edit:

Talking about my stones chipping.

 

I've never used anything but a 3 stone hone and brake fluid. Never had a problem getting rings to seal.

 

*A 3 finger hone (blade?) or a bottle brush (ball hone) is a matter of preference. The 3 finger hone can be a dangerous tool in the hands of a novice. It has a tendency to remove too much material if you are heavy handed with it. A ball hone is more forgiving. I prefer a 3 finger hone because that is what I learned with and practiced a bunch on dirty blocks that were going to be bored anyway. My education was a little different than most though, my dad was an automotive machinist.

I have used a Sunnen Hone a lot for finish honing after boring. Most of us do not have one and I would not purchase one for the shop unless I was doing a lot of motor work.

DO NOT DO THIS AT HOME KIDS!!!!!

side note:
you can loosen up a cylinder that you think is too tight with a 3 finger hone and a drill. Course stones a steady hand and measuring tools. Probably doesn't hurt to have a lot of experience and it is not a suggested practice and is probably only good for a thousandth or two. A fixed hone is the suggested tool.



*semantics we all come from different places and use slightly terminology.

 

I agree ******, I use our Sunnen ck10 at work to finish hone but most don't have access to one

 

It is not a common tool for the home builder to have access too. I worked as a machinist enough when I was younger to normally have one at my disposal.

About 10 years ago when I first got my current motorcycle I rode it for a few months and decided that it was a little tight. I run my stuff hard and loose is better. So I pulled the top end for some maintenance and while I had the heads off it was nothing to pull the cylinders and loosen them up with the 3 finger hone. The rings were good so I went back in with the same rings. It is amazing the difference a couple of thousandths make. That said I do not recommend this sort of machine work to anyone, it is totally backyard.

 

I'm lucky to have access to our machine shop at the school I work at. Sometimes you have to do what you have to do, I have ***embled a few engines using what I had to work with at the time, they ran, not a replacement for proper practices.

 

There is no replacement for good mechanics. I have been known to do things that most would consider sketchy but only to get by. It helps to know what you can get away with and what you can't. That only comes from years of bad decisions.

 

I can't remember anyone calling a ball de-glazer a ball hone until I arrived here.

 

When refreshing a sbc race engine two years ago I got a lot of schooling about cylinder bores from Saltflats, Racer X and Rick Penneton from here on the Hamb, Racer X even sent me some good cylinder hone tech info.
Became a believer in using torque plates when measuring, boring and honing, had to shop around to find a local machinist using them.
He told me a story about a 396 block that he had bored and honed for a customer, not long after customer brought the block back complained cylinders were up to .003 out of round
Torqued the plate back on and the cylinders squared up under head bolt stress

 

I'm firmly in the 30-45 degree crosshatch camp, aiming for 30. Your RPMs will depend on how fast you can move up and down to maintain that angle. Some guys get it done quick, some guys like to linger.

Here's some info on hone lube from the guys that make them: http://blog.brushresearch.com/four-tips-for-flex-hone-lubrication

Sent from my Pixel 2 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app

 

I think that is probably the correct terminology. I think I have seen that on the package of a new one.

 

No

 

All a flex hone or a dingle berry hone does is break the glaze. A Porkn****** stated sandpaper will do just as good. Caterpillar sleeves are so hard you could hone forever and not break the glaze. You rig up a felt covered plunger. hook up a battery, soak the felt in battery acid and etch the cyls. That what the old caterpillar engine manuals recommend if you want to do it correctly.

 

We always called them Dingle Berry hones.Yes, there's an actual berry called a ***********. It's a kind of cranberry. In slang, though, a *********** is a term for a small piece of poop clinging to the **** of a human or animal, sometimes used as a mild way to call someone "stupid."

 

God bless both of you. Sometimes you can't justify "W*lM*rt"ing the last nickel out of everything.

 

The thing you have to realize is that what we all did 50 years ago was acceptable for the time. Piston, ring, and engine technology have come a long way since then. If someone has a recently built engine with no cylinder wear but glazed over after startup, you might use a ball hone to break the glaze. If you have an engine that has some mileage on it, ball hones and three stone hones will give you some crosshatch, but they won't give you roundness. They also won't take all imperfections out or remove much material. You may get something that now feels smooth to your touch and looks like it has a complete crosshatch thru its length, but if it wasn't perfectly round to start with, it won't be any better when you are done. The design of both of those tools relies on spring pressure and they will follow an existing contour.
A true hone like the ones used on a Sunnen honing machine are adjustable to a specific size and they hold that size all the way up and down the cylinder. They will make a cylinder round again. They also are attached to a machine that has a timed operation so that all crosshatch patterns are the same and don't vary from cylinder to cylinder. The cost of having an engine professionally honed is pretty reasonable for what you get.
The problem is that professional honing may actually remove enough material that new pistons could be needed. Someone wanting to use existing pistons and just add new rings really doesn't want .002+ material removed. They are trying to do an inexpensive (cheap) bandaid repair and hope for the best......especially if the engine is not going to get high usage. Nothing wrong with doing that, but builders need to understand that the spring loaded hones are not for removing material or making a bore round again.
There are lots of things that can be used to lubricate spring loaded hones. Virtually any type of thin oil solution can be made to work. Personally I would prefer kerosene because you can have enough volume that coupled with a small pump you can provide a continuous flushing spray while honing. It helps a lot with any type of honing to have sufficient flow to not only lubricte the stones/cylinder surface but to flush the residue away immediately. Look at any type of professional honing and you will always see plenty of fluid flow accompanying the cutting action.

 

I emphasized "bandaid" in your reply, but in my case I feel I'm actually making it better. See, the engine lost a headgasket, normal course of action is just replace the headgasket. But once the heads were off I didn't like the looks of the waterjackets, so decided to pull the engine, have it cleaned and freshen it up, since it wasn't using oil/etc.

FWIW, I do agree with all your points made though.

 

Your right, porkn****** does have good info unlike you.

 

I worked in a shop in the mid 60,s We used a portable boring bar that bolted to the top of the engine Mostly did farm tractor engines and 6 cyl flat heads. Yup it came loose a few times when it was running. The boss would come along & take care of it? A scary time Do any of you remember the portable boring bar ( I think that was what it was called back then Gene in Mn

 

That’s what I learned on in Tech School in the early 90’s. My degree in in Automotive Maintenance Technology, we learned enough machine work to know what to ask for when dealing with a machine shop. Shorty after I graduated, they eliminated that part of the program. Too bad, I learned some neat stuff. Nowadays all they teach is replacement. I don’t know of any car shops that still do engine work. Thank goodness it’s not like that on the heavy truck side!


Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app

 

Sorry if you took exception to the term "bandaid", but thats always been common terminology for trying to do repairs using as many existing parts as possible. Wasn't meant as a slight toward you. The thing with any engine is that both cylinder walls and piston skirts wear in normal use. If an engine had some type of malfunction while reasonably new and minimal wear existed, simply reusing the non-damaged parts would be logical. When both the engine and the piston have had nominal wear for a reasonable period of use, and someone reuses the worn parts with only rings and gaskets being replaced......thats considered a "bandaid" type of repair.
People who had a rod bearing go bad used to pull the oil pan and use crocus cloth to polish the journal. Then they put another bearing in place and hoped for the best. Things like that were commonly referred to as a "bandaid" repair because they were used in emergencies............like when people had no money for proper repairs. I compare using a ball hone to refinish cylinders to be comparable to using crocus cloth on rod journals. That may be a mistaken comparison on my part, but thats just how it crossreferences in my mind. So again, no offense intended.

 

57 Fargo, I’ve always enjoyed “ shop privileges” in every place I have worked. It’s part of the reward for a job well done! Maybe some folks here don’t do such a good job? Also at schools you need” stuff” to work on to show the young’ns how to do things. Here in Oklahoma they don’t pay the teachers enough to live on! It’s shameful! Glad there are people out there willing to dedicate theirselves to educate our young people. I couldn’t do it!






Bones

 

The hone on the right side of post 36 will get the bore true and straight.

 

I have a Van Norman boring bar for years, never used it. Pulled it out of a local shop that burned down in the '70's, I was told it was only good for flathead blocks, don't know why...and don't know what happened to it. Apparently this bolted to the head bolt holes, then you would align it from there.

Sound familiar?

 

That’s the one I used years ago on used blocks to try and straighten holes. It was a very slow process, but helped by hitting the high spots. It’s amazing how “ wavy” cylinder walls can be!






Bones

 

Yup, sorry my bad, I should not have bit at the bait on that one. I do apologize for contributing to derailing the thread. Thanks for the reminder Ryan


Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.