Bangin' in the New Year - The January BANGER meet is now open

Anyone? Artiki? Enquiring cheapskate minds need to know...

 

Hmm. Not sure. Have got a B pump on my bench and my pal has my old Volvo engine plus a spare block, so I can have a look at the weekend.
Somebody remind me though, eh!

 

Hey, Artiki- don't forget to...

 

http://www.ssra.org/start/index.php?option=com_wrapper&view=wrapper&Itemid=61

Mac! try this linkthread page 9 and 10
Just reply on his thread if You want the howto....

T.

 

Hmm.... I see now that You have to enter RODDING ÖVRIGT And then open FORD 28 COUPSTER PROJECT.... Then go to page 9 n 10

Sorry.

T.

 

Chris,
Autopulse was one of several brands of electric fuel pumps available in 6 volts. Most of the pumps were available with either 2.5 or 7 lb. pressure internally regulated.

 

Gotcha, thanks Bill

 

Here you go!
Its from my build!
You se a stock model b gasket and the volvo B18/20 fuelpump!See pics

The arm thats pulls to the camshaft must be made to a stiper angle and i made a bigger steele plate to the arm agenst camshaft. See pics

The volvo fuelpump are very cheap and have high reabillity!

Hope you understod the bad English!

 

Here are the direkt link to my Thread

Ford-28 coupster projekt.Ford-28 coupster projekt.

 

*thanks Niklas...

I just picked up a 23T roadster, might try to make a go of it as-is rather then modernize it with different running gear.
does anyone have any experience putting an A crank in a T block? whats involved?
or any other readily available crank thats stronger then a T and can be counterbalanced easily
I wont be using the stock ignition on the flywheel if that makes any difference
I'd like to be able to get it to turn in the range of 3500rpms comfortably if possible

I'm reading to use fordson valves, open the ports, mill the head or get an overhead, lots of little tricks to do to these things, seems like fun!!

thanks
Zach

 

Well done, Niklas. Your English is fine. Interesting swap, that.

Zach, can't remember what's involved but I know Dan McEachern does the machinework to fit an A crank into a T. I think he has them on the shelf.

 

Where can I get one of those T5 adapters. I saw Wildfire's and now I think I just HAVE To have it!

Mike
New/Old Banger dude

 

Zach, I know were a Rajo for a "T" is

 

T's are more about finesse. Start with a stock crank with some alumium postions and play with it from there. You can get a T with 40hp to scare the shit out of you.

A crank to a T block:

buy an after market T crank an drop it in. (though can explain most of how it is done)

Read my post about gearing and a T or do you plan on running 4:1 gears to go 65?

Don't waste your time with Fordson valves. They make oversized ones.

 

so it will take a while and I am too lazy to type it all out right now, so will start out at the beginning...sorta. Going to have more fun stuffing this in the monthly banger threads anyways.

Having done this a few times, I have learned my leason about not having predefined parameters and constantly changing direction on a build: it never gets done. Have a plan and stick to it (with in reason).

This is going to be a multi part build. First is going to be get it running with some "basic" chassis and suspension mods. Nothing fancy in the engine for the first iteration, distributer, this slick little period Master carb set up I have, aluminum pistions, auxillery oiler (no pressure), headers, maybe a cam, stock rear end with 3:1 and a body of some sort. Time frame: will be at the Lucky Bastards/Hot Rod Revolution this fall.

Next will come a ruckstell, nice wire wheels, and then I will build the engine. Time frame...a couple of years.

I think the best way to build a anything is from the back forward. Gears. Model T's are very simple 2 speeds: slow and other. (as noted eventually it will have a ruckstell so I will show how used that in planning the build)

How fast do you really want to go? is acceleration and climbing the goal, general over the road drive ability, or is full chat WOT balls to the wall the goal. Depending on the awsner to that question...

This is going to be a general over the road car, but geared high, as I can build a motor that will get me over most anything with in reason. My last car was good for basically 80 mph and would run 65-70 which is a good speed for moseying down the road. Here is the break down for 2 gear sets.

Now this is a slight generalization, but basically a 30 x 3 1/2" tires attached to a Ruckstell with 3:1 will net you 3:1 in direct and apprx 3.63:1 in under driver, which happens to be the stock rear end ratio a T. (A model T has no reduction when in direct, the gearing reduction is through the rear axle)

how fast to go (I am showing final drive only, not going to worry about low band, since the operating RPM ranges are the same)...

3:63 @ 20 mph = 813 rpm
3:1 @ 20 mph = 672 rpm

3:63 @ 35 mph = 1423 rpm
3:1 @ 35mph = 1176 rpm

3:63 @ 50 mph = 2033 rpm
3:1 @ 50 mph = 1680 rpm

3:63 @ 65 mph = 2643 rpm
3:1 @ 65 mph = 2184 rpm

3:63 @ 80 mph = 3252 rpm
3:1 @ 80 mph = 2688 rpm

(will get into the semantics of breaking 3k RPM with a T later, but figured I would run out to the ton)

3:63 @ 100 mph = 4066rpm
3:1 @ 100 mph = 3360rpm

Now we have our operating parameters from which everything else will be extrapolated from during the pre-planning stage.

From this information I can determine what type of cam I will spec and now can begin to calculate everything else.

Part 1 completed.

 

i understand counterweighted steel t cranks are available probably in custom strokes if wanted. pricey tho(of course) i can look into if your interested .i have a box full of bolt on weights if your feelin brave. honestly dont see any advantage to cutting an a crank to replace the bent paperclip t crank!

 

Pricey is an understatement! $1,400.

http://www.modeltford.com/item/3030.aspx

 

how much do you think buying a good A crank, a new set of cut down A rods (or custom rods), line boring the block for insert mains (or rebabitting the block), cutting down an A crank (cutting down the journals, lopping off the rear flange, and remachining the front flange) is going to cost?

That is "basically" a drop in...

 

A lot, but luckily, at least up to this point, I've been able to avoid any of those costs with my T engines. Hell, SCAT would cut you a custom steel billet crank to spec for less than that, I think. They quoted me $750 to cut a steel billet Boss 429 crank. Surely they would do a T hairpin for even less.

That's not to mention the fact that a number of these Aussie cranks have been reported to fail. At least three failed the first couple of months they were on the market.

 

yep, the aussie cranks failed. the holes for the fly wheel were drilled off a few thousandths. When you torqued the flywheel to the crank it tweaked the rear mainflange something fierce.

I should look into getting a crank made...

 

SCAT cranks are junk.

Moldex is really the best one-off crank guys in the US

Some of you forget speed costs money. How fast you want to go or how far

A good hard running T that will get you home too is expensive.

 

humm built my own tee motor for my roadster shortened a crank shell bearings chev 4 head via adaptor home cast sump and side plates home made twin carb intake offset rods model a aussie holden pistons [gudgen about in rings] vw oilpump off back of cam drilled crank pressure relief valve dumps excess onto bands connect deep sump to trans housing electronic dizzie [nisson] in bosh tee front plate no magnets on flywheel goes like cut cat heaps of fun cost too great unless you nut out how to do it yourself plan your motor first and you have a very rewarding project

 

while I agree that moldex makes a better crank, I wouldn't go as far as saying scat cranks are junk. ran forged scat cranks in my VW midget motors to the tune of 300 hp and 8k rpm. only ever saw ONE fail and knowing the guy who ran it I'm surprised it lasted as long as it did. He was so hard headed he could break an anvil with his forhead

over the 300hp mark moldex cranks were generally used (~340hp 8400rpm)

 

Do any of you guys across the pond know of a good supplier for English model T bits? looking for a RHD hogs head and few other knick knacks...

 

Zach,

I think all of our discussion about alternative cranks for the T engine is premature. As has been alluded to by some of the other guys, you have to determine what your goal is, and build to suit. You have to have a fairly radical T engine before you need to be concerned about breaking a crank.

Almost all crank breakage with a T engine can be contributed to one thing...out of tolerance run out. The remainder are probably due to incorrect spark adjustment for the situation. I say probably because this has not been proven, it is theoretical. The first statement has been proven by extensive analysis.

The real problem with a T crank is that it is so flexible (They bend, but don't break. The bending is not permanant. It flexs back into shape, though it may weaken over time.) Because of this, they don't usually break under load, but they bend so much that you have timing issues. This is only a real problem with this is in extreme cases, like if you were racing.

Let's forget the RPM goal for the moment. What do you want the car to do? Do you want it to outrun a stock Model A (the most common goal)? Do want to run it on the interstate? Do you just want it to get you to and from a car show? Do you want it to be a race car?

My recipe for outrunning a stock Model A:

Z head ($365) - use the one with 14mm sparkplugs, so that you have a good sparkplug selection for correct heat range

Stipe 280 cam ($370)

Downdraft intake with Stromberg 81 downdraft carb (intake is $65 or use a Model A)[there are better carb choices for this, but if you want the period look, go with the 81]

Very good ignition system

Aluminum pistons ($75/set)

Balance the entire rotating assembly (including the transmission and magneto, if you are running one)

Flywheel - lightweight if in a speedster, stock if in a full-bodied car

Aluminum or bronze timing gear ($45-$70)

Wood or Kevlar bands (woven cotton is really not bad, so this is a matter of preference)

Outside oil line kit ($25)

Chassis:

Use an over-and-under front wishbone (old type mated to the newer type)

Lower the car a bit

Choose final drive gearing carefully, based on application and primary usage.

Beyond that, I'd just focus on making the car lighter.

As to the ignition, this is key. A T performance engine needs a perfectly performing ignition system. I cannot stress this enough. The *best* ignition system is a matter of huge debate in the T world. My experience is that all choices can be made to perform about equally as well, so its a matter of personal preference as to whether you run the stock coil/mag system, a distributor, an aftermarket mag, or electronic (with either a distributor or with the timer). Do note that if you run an aftermarket timer, some are much better than others.

If you get much faster than this, you'll need better brakes and a better steering box. You will also need more tire (for braking). If you make enough horsepower to go faster than this combination, then you may need to start thinking about the crankshaft options.

 

lotsa good info above but while i cant back this up, i believe crank breakage is a direct result of lugging the engine in high gear. that will stress the crank way more than rpm's on a balanced engine

 

'Nervous' Bob Froch comes to mind.
Might be an idea to PM Monkeybiker on here first as he's been over to Bob's quite recently and may have an idea of what he has in stock.
If Bob can't help, he'll know a man who probably can.

 

thanks T-time
some great info to consider there

This will be a full fendered car, I want it to GO... but dont expect break neck speed
i realize what it is and im driving it for the antiquity of it more so then the broadsliding tire spinning adventures like i can have in my other cars

I'm working on a few leads for some parts and still need to assess whats all needed for the car
the motor turns over ateast, so thats good to know... its pretty gummed up from sitting so long but atleast not all rusty inside

how does milling the stock head 1/8" compare to the Z-head?
looks like mine has adapters to run the smaller plugs so i might be ok there
and milling it is free

figure it might be good till i can find an OHV head?
also working on some Winfield carbs, so hopefully i can find a good size winfield to run on there, just one, to keep it looking a little older then the stromberg

seems as though the bodies are pretty darn light
if i try to adapt a transmission onto the back and run the 3:1 rear gears, maybe it will keep me from "chugging" the motor like Al(jetmek) mentions, by having more of a selection of gears before "high"

what years are the earlier wishbones and perches to use ontop for the double wishbone deal?
I have the lowers already on the chassis

Sure wish it was Hershey swapmeet time right now
could probably build this car in a few days after searching around there for the week

Zach

 

Honestly, I'm by far not a T expert, however, I have looked into this issue in great depth, culling views from many fellows who've been into Model Ts for many years. From what Ihave been told, T cranks can break under any pressure exerted from the engine or even outside forces such as hitting a bad bunp in the road! Yes, sounds weird, but I talked with two fellows on the Model T Club of America forum who explainted exactly how it happened. Not getting into it, but it ended up happeneing, low gear, going over railroad tracks, etc.

The other thing to look into is getting ANY crank magnafluxed. I have talked with two experienced T engine builders who both told me that you'd be amazed at how many guys build engines and use un magged cranks an think nothing more about it.

This is something I beleive is more than likely the main cause of many breaks in T cranks.

The only other evidence is the fact that it has been a recorded fact historically in the racing world of the 20s that T cranks were notorious in thier problematic breaks. If you're looking for high reves, based on history, and the things I've been told by fellows who've experienced issues, mag your crank regardless of which you choose to go with!

lang's makes a NEW counterbalanced T crank,.. a bit pricey though!

 

What year hogs-head? I still appear to have an English drop-frame axle that I had swapped for a RHD '26/27 petrol tank that has yet to materialize...