The only way I would change the starter is if I had checked everything else. And if a starter doesn't work on the car, and you bench test it and its fine, its going to be either its not shimmed properly, or bad grounds. No because its "made in China"... Bad grounds would actually be the FIRST place I would look, but I thought he said he checked that. Excessive initial would be next, starter gear engagement too deep in the ring gear next, in that order. Swapping out the starter would be last.
I had a similar situation when first starting my rebuilt 327. It was nothing more than a bad ground. I ran an additional ground strap from the bellhousing to the frame. Cranks like a champ every time, ever since.
The starter has to be load tested to determine good or no-good condition. No spark plugs, it may spin the engine over. With plugs in, no way. I like to use GM starters, period. I take great pains to pick up the starter when I get an engine, even as a core. There are a plethora of nose cones for them, too many variables for me. For my 355, I had my truck starter done over by a local shop (AnFlo Electric, Amityville, NY) and it was converted to a hi-torque. Works great.
I was building a stock car years ago. Got the engine in, we were anxious to start it up. It starts, runs great for a minute, starts missing and the battery cables start smoking. We never grounded the engine to the ch***is. Dumb mistake and we fixed it quick. The hot cable thing on the OP's ride points to high resistance somewhere.
I'm no expert but simply pull the coil wire off then turn it over if it turns fine it's timing...also try a set of jumper cables from battery to starter positive post and leave original wire also even just one side of the cables like one positive end on battery other positive on starter basically using then as a big wire....hope you get it soon fall weather is almost here...
I may have just picked up on something. Negative cable one foot long. "IF" your bolting the Neg cable to the ch***is then ch***is to motor try changing that. I've seen it more that once. Also, do not ground to the Alum. trans case. Go directly to the Motor block with just One cable. I could try to explain it but someone will call Bull **** on it. What do you have to loose? And yes I have done this and fixed that. The Wizzard
Amazing how different a large wire can make.had a guy pull a starter out of a tractor because his jumper cables wouldn't start it..I said do you mind if i try something to save you a buck..put same starter back in hooked up my welding cable jumpers..first shot fired right up.need good cables...
Remember he said it cranks over just very slowly under load. It works when there's no load IE. Spark plugs in. So under load it's ****s out. It's a bad starter internally grounds are all fine by his account. Believe me I have the same problems with new CHINA starters from local parts houses. I bet it's a brush/carbon-solenoid problem. the big positive stud that goes into the starter housing has a wire on the inside and if that was pinched or cut when the 7 year old put it together than it won't put out the amps/volts to crank under load. Good luck man
As pist-n-broke said, the first thing I think when I hear slow cranking and high amperage draw is that the starter gear is too deep into the ring gear. I have run across it several times over the last 40 years of working on small-blocks, when the starter gear is engaged too deep into the ring gear, the starter works VERY hard, cranking is slow, and draw is WAAAY up. Neither him nor I are just pulling this out of our ***, been there, done that, got the t-shirt. First time I had first-hand experience with it was at around 18, with a 327 and a 168 tooth flywheel in a '68 Camaro. He mentions cranking the distributor around randomly as well, and he claims to have checked the grounds. My guess is its a combination of over-advanced and the starter gear is too tight to the ring gear, but at best, that's just an informed hunch. The problem with diagnosing things over the internet, is unless you are there to see, hear, smell and touch, it can be damn near ANYTHING. Everyone would always prefer to blame the parts instead of the installation, for obvious reasons. In my not inconsiderable experience, in most cases its the other way round. Yes, even when I did the work!!
When I bought my truck, he had the engine ground bolted to the aluminum water pump... You could try a jumper cable direct to engine on neg, if it works, engine is not getting a good ground to the ch***is.
Didn't he say it cranks fine with no load. Iv never had the too deep problem so that is new to me. I see how that would be a problem just don't understand maybe with spark plugs in the gear bottoms out because of the needed torque under load??? I like learning so anything new is fun for me. I still bet it's a junk starter or ground/timing thing though. You can never have to many grounds so ground strap that thing up....
OK Guys, Pulled the starter in case I had accidently painted the block where it bolts to but no, bare metal. Yes it was chrome (and I thought it was home) The starter gear enters the ring gear around 60% so that's OK and the gap is a paper clip width so that's ok. I have run cables direct to the starter with no difference. Welding cables? interesting thought. I'll put the starter back in and try it with welding cables. But I think the starter is too light/bad mechanics/not North American/all the above.
Hot cables means there is excessive current flowing through them, which is the exact opposite of what happens when there is high electrical resistance. Ohm's law:
If you are concerned about the timing install the plugs and kill the ignition and see how it cranks. Put a volt meter on the battery post and the starter terminal check for voltage drop when cranking same thing for the starter case and the neg. battery post.
For those that aren't familiar with checking the depth of starter gear in the ring gear, the OP has it nailed here, if a paper clip will fit in between the crown and root of the teeth, you are golden. Any tighter, and its going to be trouble, that's why they make those starter shims. Until you have experience with it, its really hard to imagine just how severely it will drag on the starter. Its like a distributor with the curve locked out times 2.
Geezz buddy, I feel your pain. So this was a fresh rebuild first time fire up? It really sounds like the starter went away. Tell me how you built Oil pressure if you did. I would ***ume with the plugs out it's still is a bit tight. I know the cold set dizzy was covered but I actually was taught a bit different. 7 plugs in and a remote starter ****on. Finger in #1 empty plug hole and bump bump bump the starter till I get compression pop past my finger and stop. I don't care what the pointer and dampner say. Key on and turn Dizzy till plug wire fires and lock it down. My motors always fire off without kick back and run in the Cam. I have yet to have this not work. However I don't think timing has anything to do with the starter issue. I think at this point I'd hang a new starter on. Best of luck to ya. The Wizzard
New motor, the biggest fear is that initial fire up. Like being around when one of your kids is about to be born. Every precaution is made for an uneventful christening party. I'd be hitting a local rebuilder or trusted part house and pick up a hi-torque off the shelf, send the Speedway one back.
Welding cable from battery to starter (+), and battery to starter mounting bolt (-.) At least 2/0, 3/0 would be better. If it still cranks slow under load, toss the starter. From the block, ground the frame and body with heavy braided cables. You cannot have to many or to big of a ground cable(s). You also need metal to metal contact with star washer to bite in. Joe
What's the compression on this engine? ......... Although i'm sorta leaning towards electrical too...........
I got a new starter aaaaaaaaand ta-dahhhh! (first start) https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10153737491666651 (timing)
Yep junk starter will get you everytime. I'm glad to see/hear her run. Glad we could help out. I hope you can return that speedway one for a refund. Car is good looking and sounding now it's play time.
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