Register now to get rid of these ads!

Barrett Jackson in a Bit 'O Hot Water

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by ♠Stovebolt♠, Feb 1, 2007.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Someone sent me this email. Thought it was kinda interesting.

    Barrett-Jackson's Westworld Tent Turns Out to be a House of Cards
    January 27th, 2007 by fourwheeldrift

    As a collector car journalist, I have been watching the Barrett-Jackson
    auction for years. For the last five or so years, it has been very apparent
    that the Scottsdale auction is at best a bastion of greed.and at worse,
    all-out fraud.

    I've discussed B-J with collectors, dealers and enthusiasts, many of whom
    would be considered "insiders," meaning they've bought and sold cars at B-J
    and other auctions, or are well-known in the collector car hobby. For some
    reason, it is this year that people are all finally grumbling and passing
    rumors in unison.

    The bottom line is that Craig Jackson and the B-J company have really
    screwed themselves this year. According to a disgruntled seller, their
    contracts specifically promise every car three minutes on the stand. Due to
    ego and greed, they expanded the Scottsdale '07 auction to the point they
    could not provide this, plus they had the audacity to do it on live
    television.

    A well-known former judge in the Ford Thunderbird circles was one of the
    sellers who had his car short-timed. He has already filed a law suit
    against B-J, and this is already being discussed as translating into
    class-action status.

    According to this judge and other sources, it appears Barrett-Jackson was
    operating a bit on the same level as an evangelical healing show. They had
    assistants milling around asking what specific sellers thought their cars
    would bring. Armed with this information at the control desk, if a lot
    passed the value at which a seller indicated he'd be happy, the car would
    be rushed off and the gavel would fall - even if bidding was still very
    much alive.

    Because the event was televised on live television via the Speed TV
    network, the plaintiff(s) now have video/audio proof that buyers were
    signaling increased bids before the three-minute marks, but were denied by
    a too-fast last call and hammer.

    While this all might cause Barrett-Jackson to have to pay money to sellers
    in the form of a judgment or settlement, it is something else that might
    land Craig Jackson in jail.

    It is no secret that Barrett-Jackson owns many cars that are run through
    the auction - it was something I suspected many, many years ago. This was
    proven when they started maintaining a showroom of cars in Arizona. This is
    not illegal, but stay with me.

    I've always suspected that the cars owned by Craig Jackson and the B-J
    company were often driven up by shill bidders working for the company.
    Essentially, the strategy works in the sense that ever since the auction
    focus moved from classics like Packards and Duesenbergs to muscle cars, B-J
    has been able to shill, say a Hemi Cuda or mid-year Corvette 427 they own,
    which causes the value of the 10 other identical cars to increase. They
    wind up "buying" their own car back, but the others go on to regular
    buyers, who now are paying higher because of the perception the market has
    moved up.

    This suspicion has been validated by at least one auction attendee this
    year that says he witnessed cars sold at auction headed in trailers back to
    B-J's warehouse. The lawsuit allegedly points out that these cars also
    spent significantly more time on the block than others.

    If this isn't all interesting enough, during this year's auction, fellow
    collector car journalist, Keith Martin of Sports Car Market, was booted
    from the Westworld premises and his media credentials revoked for voicing
    loud, specific concern regarding the event while sitting in the media room.
    Barrett-Jackson accused Keith Martin of "holding court" and attempting to
    send VIPs and journalists to the competing RM and Russo and Steele auction
    events. Among the alleged opinions included that the cars at B-J were of
    inferior quality (and had quality misrepresented,) as well as that the
    bidders were significantly over-bidding cars, which shouldn't come as a
    surprise to anyone who has witnessed people paying six figures for cars
    they could have bought for under $50,000 any other day of the year!!!

    This is somewhat of an interesting twist. Keith Martin's publication has
    marketed the B-J events and has helped fuel its popularity. Keith is
    definitely one of the great "insiders" of the hobby, and has been a friend
    to Craig Jackson. In past years, Keith nor his publication have been
    critical of the goings-on and rumors, while other collector car journalists
    screamed that something stunk.

    It makes sense, since Sports Car Market really only tracks the value of
    vehicles and other items sold at auction, rather than via private sales
    (which really has skewed SCM's values for years!) So without kissing-ass to
    B-J, Keith would have missed insider info on the largest events covered by
    his mag. So we can only guess that Keith and Craig had a falling out of
    some type.

    I applaud Keith for turning the corner on his view of B-J, but I'm with
    others I've talked to about this: I hate to say this about a colleague, but
    I felt his behavior was a bit unprofessional. As journalists, it is our
    responsibility to write what we think, but going to the show for years,
    then promoting RM and Russo+Steele while at Westworld is somewhat
    unprofessional. I agree that Keith, a true hobbyist who started out by
    writing an Alfa Romeo newsletter, was for a long time too much a part of
    the "circus" about which he finally rejected, and that SCM has to a
    significant degree helped to fuel misinformation and a house of cards
    regarding specific auction prices and bidding behavior. Keith, by all
    accounts, is a really good guy - an enthusiast, who maybe just needed to
    take a step back and a big breath and reacquaint himself with those outside
    of the very insulated collector car "in crowd" - and spend time with some
    car people who are not trying to exploit the collectors. There are plenty
    of guys who have dug themselves too deep into this little crowd, and are no
    longer fun to deal with, because they've put personal greed well ahead of
    the cars and the collectors. Keith will rebound - he has a great internal
    staff of really fantastic people, who hopefully will help him return to his
    roots.

    That being said. While I've never met him, the buzz among those in the
    hobby - both collectors and journalists, is that Craig Jackson is quite
    arrogant, so don't expect many to come to his rescue. He inherited his
    father's company, and has fueled B-J's growth with a combination of
    intelligence, drive, ego, and greed. While there is nothing wrong with that
    combination, when it results in unethical and possibly illegal activities,
    that's inexcusable.

    Like many surrounding the hobby, I will be watching the events unfold. Will
    the Westworld tents come down like a house of cards, or will everything
    just go away with an exchange of a little money? It's happened before, like
    the 2006 event's Futurliner debacle when investor Ron Pratt allegedly
    negotiated a $3.0M price (after B-J staff admitted to mistaking the high
    bid), but the reported sale was for $4.0M.

    It's hard to predict the outcome. None of us have all the facts. Craig
    Jackson has become a very powerful man, and his company has pumped billions
    of dollars into the Arizona economy over the years. He's allowed his say,
    and the appropriate judge/jury might very well decide he personally has
    done nothing wrong.

    This all being said, there's no doubt that Barrett-Jackson "jumped the
    shark" this year. Unlike when Fonzi did it, Craig Jackson drove his
    allegedly shill-bid Hemicudas over the tank and down a ramp that could lead
    to six years in a minimum security prison-issued orange jumpsuit. If that's
    the case, maybe he can get Sports Car Market in the slammer to keep-up on
    Russo and Steele, RM and Kruse auction results.
     
  2. I've always wondered if there was any plants in the audience,to get the bids higher.
     
  3. 55kustomline
    Joined: Oct 22, 2006
    Posts: 134

    55kustomline
    Member

    this wouldnt surprise me at all, however, it wouldnt surprise me if this was all BS either
     
  4. Levis Classic
    Joined: Oct 7, 2003
    Posts: 4,066

    Levis Classic
    Member

    So who is this mysterious email author...could it be a jealous competitor in the auction business?

    Spill the bean as to the author.

    I am sure that some things do go on at the auction, but who cares if Craig Jackson makes a buck on his cars or his auction for that matter. Remember capitolism is what this country is based on. If businesses dont make money then they have no jobs and no paycheck for its workers.

    So again I ask who wrote this disrtetation?
     
  5. alsancle
    Joined: Nov 30, 2005
    Posts: 1,574

    alsancle
    Member

    This is just a BS chain letter. Where is the author's name? This sort of thing is the real downside to the internet as people who would otherwise seem intelligent believe anything they see posted and then propogate it.

    I'm sure that big sellers and "name people" get a little more time on the block then your average joe and there may even be other games going on. However, don't believe that some unamed spam is the bastion of truth because I'm sure the writer had their own agenda.
     
  6. I only watched a little of the coverage, but I thought there were some cars they left up too long to coax the bids higher. Just goes to show that money wrecks everthing.
     
  7. bulletproof1
    Joined: Feb 23, 2004
    Posts: 2,079

    bulletproof1
    Member
    from tulsa okla

    this came up on a mopar site a few days ago.....
     
  8. hatch
    Joined: Nov 20, 2001
    Posts: 3,667

    hatch
    Member
    from house

    Crybabys.....they're everywhere. Off topic post at its finest.
     

  9. I don't know who the author is. It just said that it was by a guy from "Four Wheel Drift". It was emailed to me, and I thought it was a nice "Conspiracy Theory" type read. So no, it's not a "bs chain letter". I ALSO didn't say I believed it.............just read the thing...Jesus.
     
  10. poncho62
    Joined: Nov 23, 2005
    Posts: 1,094

    poncho62
    BANNED

    In the above story....one minute you are saying they are rushing the cars through, thus keeping prices down,,,,and the next part, is how they have "Shills" to drive prices up............Which is it????
     
  11. low budget
    Joined: Nov 15, 2006
    Posts: 5,566

    low budget
    Member
    from Central Ky

    The auctioneer does plenty of jacking the bid himself. Ever notice how frequently they have to back the bid up after there target bidder quits,then they say oh you were still in. I see the same shit at every auction Ive ever been to.
    If your gonna run with the big dogs you better be as crookied as they are!
     
  12. bigolds
    Joined: Oct 27, 2006
    Posts: 883

    bigolds
    Member

    I just went to Snopes.com ( an urban legends, email bebunking site ) and there is nothing there about this news yet. It will be interesting to see where this story goes. I always kinda liked seein all those folks spend all of their money.....Makes for some great entertainment!!!!!!!!!!
     
  13. alsancle
    Joined: Nov 30, 2005
    Posts: 1,574

    alsancle
    Member

    Well maybe I was a bit over the top. However, I can almost guarantee you wont' be able to find an author because that was not the point of it. The point of it is to cause trouble for BJ.
     
  14. bigolds
    Joined: Oct 27, 2006
    Posts: 883

    bigolds
    Member

    I'm not tryin' to stir up shit I'm just suggesting that as emails and stories go this may end up being one of "those stories " that capture everyones fascination. I know I'll be watchin and I appreciate the heads up on the story!!!!
     
  15. hatch
    Joined: Nov 20, 2001
    Posts: 3,667

    hatch
    Member
    from house

    News flash.....Craig Jackson is sleeping with his long lost cousin...Michael Jackson.
     
  16. Unkl Ian
    Joined: Mar 29, 2001
    Posts: 13,489

    Unkl Ian

    Poor little Rich Boys.
    Boo Fucking Hoo.

    [​IMG]
     
  17. Eryk
    Joined: Jul 5, 2005
    Posts: 920

    Eryk
    Member

    I completely disagree.

    Tons of people here on the hamb chastise ebay and all the greedy sellers hiking up the prices and "ruining our hobby". Inflated value and market manipulation undermines real automobile enthusiasm, whether it's collection, restoration, or modification. Assuming this story is true, how would Craig Jackson’s actions be any different? Why would his form of market manipulation be excusable? Because he has a business license? This has nothing to do with capitalism. Barret-Jackson, as a company, has made money hand over fist for decades. This isn't a case of them trying to maintain a paycheck for its workers. And even if it were, dishonest means would never justify that end. It's irresponsible to turn a blind eye in the name of capitalism.

    It's also kinda dumb to take the position that something like this wouldn't affect our little niche of the hobby just because we don't buy and sell multi-million dollar cars. Look at the shift from import classics to muscle cars. What will happen when the BJ crowd starts collecting customs and hotrods? Good luck finding anything remotely affordable.
     
  18. 2manybillz
    Joined: May 30, 2005
    Posts: 843

    2manybillz
    Member

    I'd buy the part about shill bidding to jack up the prices but cutting the bidding short and taking less for some cars? Don't they work on a percentage of the sale price? It doesn't compute.
     
  19. Levis Classic
    Joined: Oct 7, 2003
    Posts: 4,066

    Levis Classic
    Member

    Then we'll all be rich!!

    Keep building the cheapest, crappiest rods you can...cause someday they will be worth much much more when Eryk creates the "tradional" market bound for Barrett Jackson!!

    Things are in a constant state of change, deal with it!
     
  20. jeffrob
    Joined: Dec 20, 2005
    Posts: 279

    jeffrob
    Member

    now it all makes sense, we know exactly what was never confirmed to begin with...............

    of course it's crooked......... thats what money does
     
  21. Eryk
    Joined: Jul 5, 2005
    Posts: 920

    Eryk
    Member

    Haha. Way to miss the point.

    And I like how you responded to the only part of my post that wasn't directed at your first comments.


    Since you seem to have such a "deal with it", "that's just the way things are" mentality, it's not hard for me to see how you can't fathom the damaging effects of market munipulation in the name of the almighty dollar. So, did you just skip both Econ101 and Ethics101 in school?
     
  22. Levis Classic
    Joined: Oct 7, 2003
    Posts: 4,066

    Levis Classic
    Member

    Apparently I did...now back to the OT post.
     
  23. SimonSez
    Joined: Jul 1, 2001
    Posts: 1,658

    SimonSez
    Member

    It their fee is charged on a percentage, then they are probably better off selling a few more cars per hour at slightly less than getting the absolute top dollar for fewer cars.


     
  24. 392_hemi
    Joined: Jun 16, 2004
    Posts: 1,737

    392_hemi
    Member

    If their contract specifies three minutes on the block, and they didn't meet that minimum, they're going to have a real hassle. And it couldn't be easier to prove since it's all taped. Something tells me they'll be hiring different lawyers to draft a new contract before the next one. Considering the money at stake, I'm a bit surprised they'd be dumb enough to mess that up. But then again, maybe not.
     
  25. fordy7coupe
    Joined: Sep 29, 2006
    Posts: 103

    fordy7coupe
    Member
    from Wylie, TX

  26. Bishop Welding
    Joined: Sep 10, 2005
    Posts: 473

    Bishop Welding
    Member
    from USA

    Anybody who bids on the high dollar stuff at Barrett-Jackson is expecting to pay absolute top dollar.

    Anybody who goes to B-J with the intent of over-spending can afford it and is not just there to buy. They are there so people like you and me, as well as their wealthy peers, can see them buying. The buyers like it.

    For the working class people like us (well, most of us), these ridiculous auctions are a fantastic source of entertaimnent. We get to check out a bunch of cool rides and a few foolish people. We like it!

    The fact that somebody might be going to jail behind this stuff actually just added to my entertainment. I love it!!!!

    I should add that I actually missed 98% of the auction because I was (literally) in the garage, filthy dirty, working on an old Ford. I did manage to catch a few sales, and was thoroughly entertained.

    I should also add here that there are a lot of people in this world who have sooo much money that spending 125k for a big block Chevelle which they really like is literally nothing. Kinda like me or you paying $22.00 for a cool t-shirt when you know you can get plain ones at target for 7 bucks. The amount is irrelevant if you have the money. The way I see it, it's a win-win thing. This new twist just kicked it up a notch and made it WAAAAY better. I gaurantee you the auction house may be proven to be crooked, but the rich will still come.

    Just my humble opinion.
     
  27. MyOldBuick
    Joined: Jan 25, 2005
    Posts: 606

    MyOldBuick
    Member

    Ok, someone wake me up when they start paying big money for four door orphan cars . . . .
     
  28. theHIGHLANDER
    Joined: Jun 3, 2005
    Posts: 10,400

    theHIGHLANDER
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Shills? Price manipulation? No, please, say it ain't so...:D:D:D
     
  29. i'm curious , what's with your username?
     
  30. 35ratbstr
    Joined: Feb 18, 2006
    Posts: 491

    35ratbstr
    Member
    from Colorado

    I think there may be alittle truth to this story. It may have been manipulated, but i think there may be more behind it than one thinks. I watched a few of the "Behind the block" shows and it appears they have are very keen on verbage for the discriptions of the the vehicles and how they are marketed. also i confused on whether the pres of BJ owned or was representing some of the special vehicles. You can go back and watch several years of the auction coverage and i believe several people bid them selves up and paid more for vehicles. :eek: Bottom line is: when your at the auction you have to pay attention. As far as the 3 minute time limit. i can see that slipping thru the cracks. they probably thought everyone was so F#@$ing excited to sell there car, hand them 10% just to be associated with them they would not know the difference.:eek: It may have caught up with them now. Time will tell
    just my $ .02 opinion:cool:
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2021 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.