Can we start a thread on the basics of body work? I've been working with the mechanical bits of cars for years but have never had a chance to do much bodywork before. I (hopefully) will be able to start beatin on my A soon and don't wanna risk making it worse then before I started. BTW I have a basic set of hammers and dollies from Corwell (U.S. made) and HF(not), a grinder, MIG and oxy/ace. torch, and plan on getting some vixon files and shrinking disc. So can some of you more experienced guys give us some pointers? Tips and tricks your willing to share? Maybe some tech on pulling out a dent or shrinking a crease, or filling holes, tools needed, ect... Thanks, Justin
get some videos. lots of information on metalworking in the Sunchaser tools shrinking disc video. put your harbor freight body tools in your "junk for the swap meet" box.
I used to preach Sunchaser, but I would avoid Sunchaser like herpies. Buy your Martin hammers elsewhere. There are some great metalworkers here on the HAMB.
Thanks 'fink, I'll keep the video in mind but right now I can't afford to drop $165 on a dvd... Buick, why do you say to avoid them? Looks like they got some good (and expensive) tools
One thing rarely mentioned is to stay away from that well known cheap body filler. I say that because the surface remains tacky in most climates and you will get frustrated with how quickly the sandpaper or DA discs get plugged. Buy a decent filler, and you will be saving tons of time and effort.
Grab a few panels from a junk yard and practice, try it out. Sounds like BS but that's the best advice. Body shop might give you some bashed up fenders and hoods also. If you fix the panel from the junk yard, you can sell it. If you don't fix it no big deal and you'll eventually be able to fix it. Ya just gotta get started and no sense learning on vintage hard to replace iron.
Just some more typical stuff... (a.) when talking about dents, "first in" is "last out"...you know what I mean? (b.) some guys don't need it, but don't be afraid of using a "straightedge" or at least some wire to make sure you're uniform. (c.) 1000 small hits do just as good/even better than a few "gorilla" hits.
Do as I have my students at school do, Practice on panels that you can throw away when you are done. I like the comment on cheap filler, youy will be very happy with a lightweight filler of quailty. 4 X's the price, worth every penny. Welding, Practice practice, and Practice. weld like material, by that I mean the same thickness as your "A". Don't go get a late model hood and weld on it, practice on some 16 gauge, or similar to the model A material. Smash a dent in an old fender and pratice removing it with your hammer and dolly. Good Luck! Fenderless
Thanks guys, some great info already... Cool, I've heard good things about RAGE(?) filler, would that be something decent? Great Idea! I'll hit up the bodyshop next door(I offered to sweep floors and clean for lessons but no dice yet). I have HEARD new panels are made from HCLA steel or something thats harder to work, any truth to that? makes sence... So the point of impact is the last point you would work out?
Exactly. When thinking that way it helps you find the correct way to put Humpty back together again. EDIT: It will help you undertand how the impact was dissapated(spelling?) throughout the sheetmetal and you'll get quicker at diagnosing a problem...and if it is better to just replace the panel rather than waste time fixing it or if there is any "unseen" damage i.e.: not just a door but door jamb also, or not just body, but structural damage as well.
Get the 'bible' Frank Sargents book 'Metal Bumping' read that and screw up some metal then you can start asking specific questions... more a 'how do i' instead of 'what do i' lots of people here can keep you straight. Don't practice on modern car fenders, the steel in them is altogether different that what you'll work with on the 'a'. Get a piece of 20 ga and pound it silly - it isn't what you'll use in your car but it'll help develop you. What you'll use is 18ga and that can be intimidating and frustrating for a novice. Get the book first.
I like rage. Have had good luck with it. Getting junk panels is great advice. You have to get a feel for it. Tap Tap Tap no Bang Bang Bang with the hammer. Also you shouldn't strike a panel with a hammer without something behind it like a dolly. A dent forms a wave in the panel so there will be high spots around the dent so you have to push those down while workin the dent out.
Hey Justin, I'd suggest ya check out the search funtion of the HAMB for "shrinking discs'' Metalwork'' Metalfinishing" and take a look at John Kellys site/You Tube, and also mindover, here on the HAMB. There's some good/free information, here you can start with! Cornwell made some very good body tools! If you've got some time good hammers and dollys show up on EBay, CL & at swap meets now and then, but the Martin brand offers fair value for the money. Vixen file blades show up, sometimes on the cheap, cuz most don't know what their purpose was/is. The one thing that $20.00 a gallon mud will teach ya that the $70.00 a gallon **** won't is the value of your time! The cheap stuff can be shaped with a "Surf-Form Blade" of the half round kind, once the filler has semi-kicked to avoid clogged production paper and save work. Now would be a good time to learn actual metalwork i.e. bumping, dinging & metalfinishing, not puttywork. Filler and high-build primer is not metalwork! I'd avoid the pratice of your metalworking skills on late model vehicle sheetmetal, as the steels used in most vehicles built in the last thirty years are not at all like the steel used in early vehicles. S**** fenders & doors show up at swap meets, and rotted ones have gone as cheap as $5.00 a pop! Pratice your correct ****yses of collision repair and learn to use your oxy/acet. torch, leave the "squirtgun'' welder to the putty flingers, as it's of limited utility in real metalwork. Welcome to the world of tin beating- '' Reality: what a concept ''
Martin's "The Key to Metal Bumping" is a great book and roughly $14-$17 depending on where you find it- WELL worth the price!
best tools to buy and from where??? i need a dent puller cant spell the technical name for it but what is a decent one i can get?
Hey, On the'' dent puller '' are you talkin the screw in slide hammer type, or the large type with different attachments for pulling flanges and brackets ? There use to be an outfit called Morgan that sold "the Morgan Knocker'' a big ***ed puller with many attachments and the main hammer slider was made of cast iron in the shape of a naked lady, kinda retro kool! I don't know if they are still in business, but they show up at swaps & EBay. Check out ''Autobody Tools'' on the *********** and a phone book. If ya buy the Chi-Comm. **** you'll wish you'd saved your money. " Meanwhyle, back aboard The Tainted Pork "
the one that sppot welds the little nail type thing onto the dent and u use the slide hammer to screw onto that and slide and pull
A stud gun. The best thing to be coupled with a stud gun is a "T-Handle" so you can have a steady pull on the low while tapping the high...or at least this is my experience. I can't remember who sells T-Handles, though.
Thanks for all the great info so far guys, I just ordered "The Key to Metal Bumping". Bttt for the morning crew
Sunchaser doesn't sell tools anymore anyway. Ken the owner hates guys like you and he hates guys like me. He hates the guy that is only going to spend a couple hundred bucks, he hates the guy that is a two car home garage builder. How do I know this? He told me so during a phone call. I did learn some great metal working tips from him once upon a time at one of his cl***es, but I would spend my time and money elsewhere, with a company who is glad to take your couple hundred dollars and give customer service.
go to the public library in the transportation section. they usually have good old metal working books. at least the one that's a few blocks from me does.
I've read through "The Key to Metal Bumping" and it answered A LOT of my questions, would recommend it to any one in my situation. Oh, ok. Well I'm not gonna be buying much of their stuff. So next question for ya guys: What are the differences in working old steel vs. new? I just ask cause the closest junkyard with anything over 30 years is an hour away, and I got permission to grab anything I want out of the dumpster from the bodyshop next door...
The new cars have very thin metal and some cars use different alloys for raising the strength. Old metal is much thicker, and works easier in my opinion. The old body guys would smooth all the dents real close and then still have the thickness to be able to file the metal to make it smooth with no lead.
RAGE is a good filler. don't think you're going to save money by buying cheap mud, you'll spend a LOT more on sandpaper because it will gum up. A Spitzenaigel dent puller is the way to go also. DO NOT drill holes and screw in a dent puller. you'll warp the metal welding all those holes up, or if you don't, you'll have bondo spaghetti on the inside. Only Gypsies do that. The older metal is a lot thicker, so you'll want the thicker nails for your gun. I think they come in 3 sizes. You already have 2 of the best tools you'll ever need... 2 good ears. All the best bodymen I've known realize they will never know it all. Ask questions, and pay attention. B.T.W. 28 years in the biz
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