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Big Brother Rules! (the LAW, not the skate mag)

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by RF, Oct 7, 2004.

  1. RF
    Joined: Mar 13, 2001
    Posts: 1,897

    RF
    Member

    California has finally decided to come down on hot rodders. After successfully raiding the Kit Car manufacturers, the Law (attorney general, local and DMV police, SCAQMD) has begun its target on rod shops. Their goal is to seek out "misrepresented" cars, namely fiberglass hot rods. The main reason is simple: tax money. Cars built and subsequently sold in CA (and that's key that the sale is in CA) are being picked to the bone to not only verify its identity (ie '32 Ford roadster), but to prove that "adequate" taxes were paid.

    Bottom line, the days of the $500 roadster are history. The State wants its money, and they're going after pretty much every hot rodder with a hot rod registered in CA.

    One "major" shop has been "visited" so far (FBI-style!), and it will only escalate from here. Word has it they've already been taking plate numbers at car shows...joy is in the air!
     
  2. 52Chief
    Joined: Feb 10, 2004
    Posts: 590

    52Chief
    Member
    from San Diego

    I'm confused, are they going to appraise it to see how much it's worth and tax on that?

    If that's the case, I think my taxes might go down!
     
  3. 40StudeDude
    Joined: Sep 19, 2002
    Posts: 9,561

    40StudeDude
    Member

    [ QUOTE ]
    One "major" shop has been "visited" so far (FBI-style!). Word has it they've already been taking plate numbers at car shows...joy is in the air!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    No wonder Californians are moving to ColoRODo! Is a big-brother state far behind...who was your governor again?

    R-
     
  4. NealinCA
    Joined: Dec 12, 2001
    Posts: 3,380

    NealinCA
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    [ QUOTE ]
    Word has it they've already been taking plate numbers at car shows...joy is in the air!


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Saturday at the CHRR my brother saw a guy with a clipboard walking through the cars on display writing down license plate numbers and vehicle type. He said the guy looked "official" so he didn't question it. [​IMG]

    Neal
     
  5. NealinCA
    Joined: Dec 12, 2001
    Posts: 3,380

    NealinCA
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    [ QUOTE ]
    The State wants its money, and they're going after pretty much every hot rodder with a hot rod registered in CA.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    So they would basically be looking at cars recently registered or transferred in the State of CA? Like that 32 Ford I just registered and had paid $500 for?

    They can't do anything on a car you have owned for 20 years can they?

    Neal
     
  6. Buick59
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 1,995

    Buick59
    Member
    from in a house

    It never fuckin stops with these people out here. They look at the local citizenry as a source of plunder...the same way a pirate would spy another ship and plunder it. And the buck does not stop here, the system will be adopted in other states depending on the success of Kalifornia and it's quest for gold.

    Im just going to make sure if the law applies to me....ta make sure everything is done out of State. Kailifornia will never learn until it is too fuckin late. They will drive out all business and commerce to the surrounding states.
     
  7. Steve
    Joined: Mar 5, 2001
    Posts: 1,010

    Steve
    Member

    why would they have to go to car shows and take license plate numbers can't they just look at dmv records?? something doesnt add up
     
  8. cleatus
    Joined: Mar 1, 2002
    Posts: 2,277

    cleatus
    Member
    from Sacramento

    [ QUOTE ]
    why would they have to go to car shows and take license plate numbers can't they just look at dmv records?? something doesnt add up

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Because they need to pay their people money to go to car shows and write down plate numbers so they can get more money out of us to pay their people to go to car shows and write down plate numbers. - duh
     
  9. pigpen
    Joined: Aug 30, 2004
    Posts: 1,624

    pigpen
    Member
    from TX USA

    I wasn't born in Texas but I got here as soon as I could!

    pigpen


    After the hassle I had with the license and registration on my '27T, I'm thinking of somewhere else; Alaska perhaps. No, too far, too cold. Well, somewhere else.
     
  10. a lost cause
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 98

    a lost cause
    Member
    from Alameda CA

    Move to New Hampshire and join the Free State Project . Or start voting small goverment minded individuals into your local offices. You gotta start some where or we're all doomed...
     
  11. Django
    Joined: Nov 15, 2002
    Posts: 10,198

    Django
    Member
    from Chicago

    I don't mean to be an idiot, but I don't understand what they are trying to do.

     
  12. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 25,552

    Roothawg
    Member

    Someones been watching the Boyd show and listening to them throwing quotes around about the value of these cars. That gave some pencil pusher a brain fart. [​IMG]
     
  13. pigpen
    Joined: Aug 30, 2004
    Posts: 1,624

    pigpen
    Member
    from TX USA

    The local government is rigged here. The "Good ol' boy network and the oil interests have it locked up. New Hampshire is a little too close to a potential target area. What else ya got?

    pigpen


    "Cab driver, you better take me home". (The Ink Spots)
     
  14. RF
    Joined: Mar 13, 2001
    Posts: 1,897

    RF
    Member

    [ QUOTE ]
    Someones been watching the Boyd show and listening to them throwing quotes around about the value of these cars.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Right.

    Recently, the DMV noticed that over time, it had registered something like 15,000 or so "genuine" Cobras and realized that only a small fraction of that were ever originally produced. On top of that, they went back and reviewed all the "fees" paid on supposed high-dollar cars...very minimal at best. From there, it migrated to the street rod world. All the government wants is its supposed fair share of taxes. You say you paid under 10K for a car they see as worth three times that, they want the difference in taxes. You say your car's really a '32 Ford roadster when in deed it's an ASC chassis with a Wescott/Brookville body, they want statements that verify your claim. It's pretty much becomming similar to the H-D laws they created not to long ago in response to the enormous amount of thefts.

    As for how deep they will go tracking down what they deem as culprits, I don't know. All I know is, if you were to attempt to register a Model A roadster (or whatever) at DMV tomorrow, claiming you paid $500 for it and had an out-of-state title (bought), you'd be there for a very long time and I'd be very surprised if you walked out with any paperwork at all.
     
  15. a lost cause
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 98

    a lost cause
    Member
    from Alameda CA

    [ QUOTE ]
    The local government is rigged here. The "Good ol' boy network and the oil interests have it locked up. New Hampshire is a little too close to a potential target area. What else ya got?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I think Wyoming was #2 on the FSP list. But there's just something about Wyoming. Never been there but it just doesn't sit right with me. NH won out due to a sea port and its constitution still makes it legal for the state to secede should its citizens so choose. Didn't they just annex Killington, VT?
     
  16. 55olds88
    Joined: Jul 23, 2001
    Posts: 2,386

    55olds88
    Member

    looks like the easiest thing will be to take em all down to Long Beach and ship em out to me...... the cars that is, not the law making/money grabbing types
     
  17. JimC
    Joined: Dec 13, 2002
    Posts: 2,241

    JimC
    Member
    from W.C.,Mo.

    This should matter to all of us!
    What happens in California, could happen any where.
    And probably will.
    Several States now model their clean air acts after California.
    Why not the tax baxe?
    What irratates me is the amount of taxes taken on each sale of any car.
    From the sales tax on new models through each subsequent sale of that vehicle.

    What would it take to reverse the current trend?

    A lot more action than us posting on an internet forum.
    It would benifit us all if we showed up at city government meetings, county, and state meetings and present our cases with clear heads and facts.
    We would need to talk to the representatives of our particular districts And the senatetors, too.
    We would have to vote in all elections for candidates who share our views.
    If actions like these are not persued, then we just bend over.
    Jim
     
  18. NealinCA
    Joined: Dec 12, 2001
    Posts: 3,380

    NealinCA
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    [ QUOTE ]

    Recently, the DMV noticed that over time, it had registered something like 15,000 or so "genuine" Cobras and realized that only a small fraction of that were ever originally produced. On top of that, they went back and reviewed all the "fees" paid on supposed high-dollar cars...very minimal at best. From there, it migrated to the street rod world. All the government wants is its supposed fair share of taxes. You say you paid under 10K for a car they see as worth three times that, they want the difference in taxes. You say your car's really a '32 Ford roadster when in deed it's an ASC chassis with a Wescott/Brookville body, they want statements that verify your claim. It's pretty much becomming similar to the H-D laws they created not to long ago in response to the enormous amount of thefts.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I can see a 32 roadster with a claimed purchase price of $500 being an issue, but why would the state care if a car is "real" or not? Wouldn't a replica be worth less than a real one, so the taxes due would be less?

    Are they being pressured by the insurance industry? An insurance claim would be a whole different story...

    Neal
     
  19. KIRK!
    Joined: Feb 20, 2002
    Posts: 12,031

    KIRK!
    Member

    [ QUOTE ]
    Someones been watching the Boyd show and listening to them throwing quotes around about the value of these cars.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Ding ding ding. I can't say anything on here but....
     
  20. nobux
    Joined: Oct 19, 2002
    Posts: 647

    nobux
    Member

    Every time I go to the Minnesota DMV to register one of my old cars, they consult a publication with a "hitlist" of cars. They list a suggested minimum value of certain cars and tax from there.


    The list is strange, with seemingly no rhyme or reason for some of the cars being listed as high value. My 66 Chev Caprice (396, TH400,12-bolt) wasn't on it [​IMG](no big surprise there), but my dad's 66 Impala SS (283,Saginaw,10 bolt) got nailed.


    This all started about 7 years ago. Friends of mine were scrambling to get to small town DMV, which hadn't started the program yet, to transfer the titles of their 55 Chev, 69 Camaro, etc.. projects before they were taxed on a "suggested value " of $5000 for a car they paid $100 for. There are ways around this, but its a hassle.


    When I was trying to title my T (as a reconstruct), they kept tryin to charge me taxes on the value from my reciepts. I was going crazy trying to get them to understand that since I had paid sales tax on most of the parts, I shouldn't have to pay twice. They finally told me that the dollar amount I would concede to pay taxes on was too low, and the state would come after me. So, I paid taxes twice on the same parts. God Bless MN!


    KarlI
     
  21. DrJ
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 9,419

    DrJ
    Member

    I think whatever value a government representative, tax assessor, says something is worth should be a considered a legal offer to purchase and if the assessee says "SOLD" the assessor should have to buy it for that price!
    That would keep them from over-valuing property.
     
  22. 52Chief
    Joined: Feb 10, 2004
    Posts: 590

    52Chief
    Member
    from San Diego

    I bought my car for cheap, (it was not worth much, ran but not too well, didn't stop and hadn't been registered since 88). But now it's road worthy, and worth a tiny bit more. When it's done, the value, (hopefully!), should go up more. Why should I be taxed for fixing up my car and improving it's value? [​IMG]

    It seems like it's going to hurt the people who fix up cars that otherwise would just litter the highways. I see the point for somebody with a pro-built high dollar la-la car they told the DMV was only worth $500 cause it's so "old", (even though it's fiberglass, and esentialy "new"), but stil....
     
  23. Be thankful you don't live in the Common Wealth(a misnomer if I've ever heard one)of Massachusetts,the home of such notables as,"About Face John"and the "Troll of Chappaquiddick" and,"Little Adolph".I haven't lived there in over 10 years but I'm sure some of the HAMBers who do can update the chaos that reigns supreme there.
    When I lived there,a compulsory motor vehicle inspection was required every year(emissions as well as safety)for a hefty fee($50 if I remember correctly).Not a bad idea if it actually worked to eliminate deathtraps from the road but it hasn't.
    The biggest scam though has to be the annual,"exise tax"which I like to refer to as the EXCESS TAX.This is the way it works:
    You buy a new car.It's sticker price is $20,000 dollars.In addition to paying a 5% sales tax you are also hit with what amounts to a luxury tax at the rate of $25 per $1000 dollars of sticker price.The state has just relieved you of an additional $500.But it doesn't stop here.Every year you have to pay the EXCESS TAX only now it's pro-rated to drop a certain percentage every year.However it never drops below 10% of the original sticker price so on a ten year old car you still pay $50 per year for as long as you choose to own this car.Multiply this by the number of cars registered in the state(if you've ever been unfortunate to drive there,you might think half the cars in the inhabited universe were on the road)and you have a TON of tax money going....WHERE?To pay for road repairs?Maybe on the Massachusttes Turnpike that has crews working 24/7 for the past hundrd years but definitely not on the secondary roads.To politicians coffers to carry on their re-election campaigns from jail?Possibly.To help reduce insurance rates?DEFINITELY NOT! Some of the highest rates in the world.
    Sorry for the rant but Big Brother to me is just getting a bit TOO scary and if the Bay State Boy Wonder becomes #1 next month it will only get worse.JMHO
     
  24. dehudso
    Joined: Sep 25, 2003
    Posts: 545

    dehudso
    Member

    Good thing Hudsons are not popular cars.
     
  25. Blownolds
    Joined: Mar 31, 2001
    Posts: 2,335

    Blownolds
    Member
    from So Cal

    Solution? Don't park your cars in any cruise nights or car shows without removing the license plate?
     
  26. manyolcars
    Joined: Mar 30, 2001
    Posts: 9,376

    manyolcars

    [ QUOTE ]
    Solution? Don't park your cars in any cruise nights or car shows without removing the license plate?

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Haha--I went to the swap meet in Arlington Texas last year. They had changed all the rules about where you could park, so I took off my license plate--Result??? No tickets!
     
  27. Just saw here in Missouri a recent new law concerning the titling of "street rods".
    it says in a nutshell that if a car is built from reproduction parts and if said car resembles a certain vintage[real] car it can and will be titled as that vintage of car-BUT in all cases the word REPLICA shall be placed on the front of title next to that vintage year as well.
     
  28. thirtytwo
    Joined: Dec 19, 2003
    Posts: 2,637

    thirtytwo
    Member

    BLOOD SUCKERS!!!!!!!!!!
     
  29. Fidget
    Joined: Sep 10, 2004
    Posts: 1,013

    Fidget
    Member

    [ QUOTE ]
    Every time I go to the Minnesota DMV to register one of my old cars, they consult a publication with a "hitlist" of cars. They list a suggested minimum value of certain cars and tax from there.

    The list is strange, with seemingly no rhyme or reason for some of the cars being listed as high value. My 66 Chev Caprice (396, TH400,12-bolt) wasn't on it (no big surprise there), but my dad's 66 Impala SS (283,Saginaw,10 bolt) got nailed.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    But if you go to the bank trying to get a loan on a car, they look in that stupid outmoded Bluebook and tell you that the car isn't worth anywhere near that much. Even if it looks like it just rolled off the showroom floor!
     
  30. Mass Butcher
    Joined: Sep 3, 2003
    Posts: 361

    Mass Butcher
    Member

    [ QUOTE ]
    Be thankful you don't live in the Common Wealth(a misnomer if I've ever heard one)of Massachusetts,the home of such notables as,"About Face John"and the "Troll of Chappaquiddick" and,"Little Adolph".I haven't lived there in over 10 years but I'm sure some of the HAMBers who do can update the chaos that reigns supreme there.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Yeah, it does suck. I'm so used to it I don't even pay attention anymore. I have always had 3 or 4 cars and usually get nailed come EXCESS Time, but most are the $50 variety each(nothing I own is worth anything [​IMG] )
    Mass is cracking down It all depends and there is no consistancy across the state. If I have a non-titled car, I sell it to a friend in NH(no titles needed). He registers it and sells it back to me. A NH registration is a valid title in MASS.(shhh, don't tell anyone)
    Although, we are really not too bad, when I look at PA or RI.
    If it's not tax money its emissions or something else. Legislators don't want hot rods on the road, period. It all comes down to which lobbyists get the most money. Obviousely new cars companies wnat you to buy new, so they will push to get rid of old cars. SEMA does a great job trying to protect the hobby, but they can only do so much.
    Ford actually was going around MASS a few years ago buying up all the little junkyards. They were scrapping 90% of the cars and jacked the shit out of all the Ford parts. They wanted you to go to their dealerships and order from those part depts.
     

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