Projects Blown 430 MEL Build Questions

Cam should favor the exhaust side...... over lap reduced... yes minimize oil scavenge....

 

General rule of thumb for blower cams ... 10 degrees more duration on exhaust side...keep lift the same straight across... lobe separation should be 114-115 degrees.... intake lobe TO 110..... Not knowing the flow numbers proportion between the exhaust and intake .... Of course you want the heads to flow as efficiently as possible but the favor will be on the exhaust side....There has been numerous people in boat racing that have fitted 385 series heads to these engines with ok results... the best I have seen is a MEL fitted with blue Thunders with Chevy exhaust ports.... again the exhaust is the focus... not saying the intake does not account for anything ..just the intake to exhaust proportion should favor the exhaust and as far as a cam and heads .... the duration is way more important than the lift. As far as timing... you can rig a crank trigger to to garden rake ...Consider and MSD PART# 6462.... you can retard the timing as needed with the boost its easy to use and extremely effective. I know Ill get some flack for the crank trigger thing but heaven forbid it isn't a 3PzeroS or the HAMB hocks might spoil in the refrigerator while you are at the next light faster than they are.I do not know what block you have but the truck blocks have a better trans bolt set up.... the Lincolns are a little wimpy in comparison.
Your first order of business here is to get the bottom end straightened out..... Make it as strong as the budget allows... then move on to making things flow and make power... then attack the oiling and ignition.....

 

We're not building a racing motor here, guys....

 

The basic rules still apply... bottom end before boost ... favor the exhaust .....It drives me nuts to hear... well Im just gonna.... then .. Bang... and Erkle says... did I do that!?

 

Guy's: Great information, and responses.

HiHelix, Ford never put any MEL's in trucks. Thunderbirds, Edsels, Mercury, and Lincoln Cars Only. They are a deep skirt Y-block design, so there is some inherent strength to the bottom end to start with. I have been thinking about a pan girdle to help stabilize the mains a bit, help prevent them from walking, but that may be overkill on a 5500 rpm street motor.

I am not worried about peak horsepower. I am much more worried about making the engine work and work well. If I have to leave 50 Hp on the table to make it live another 30,000 miles, I will do that in a heart beat.

Another question I have is manifold orientation. Both Ted Cyr's dragster and Beep's Grizzlehopper run the manifold with the lettered long side towards the back of the engine. This pushes the blower forward and allows for a very short snout, but eliminates access to the distributor hole completely. For a street motor, to me it makes more sense to flip the manifold around and run it with the long side and lettering forward. This pushes the manifold back enough were I think I could fit an offset distributor drive in, keeps the back of the blower flush with the rear of the motor, and would require a longer blower snout. Thoughts? Of course the dragsters are not running water pumps and the distributors are driven off the front covers.

 

True not in trucks... sorry

 

The -71 series front cover where the snout will mount is 1 3/4" thick so I'd try and cypher out how long a snout you might need with the manifold reversed. Steel hub or original harmonic balancer on the crank? Either way you will want at least one v-belt for the water pump and alternator, although the pump could be friction drive like the old Isky SBC drives. Do you want a 2" drive (perfectly adequate), or 3" for the racier look? Once you have a guesstimate on what would be needed I think that will help to influence your decision. No matter what, the distributor is still an issue.

 

The plan would be to run the harmonic balancer. At a minimum the motor will still need a water pump, alternator, and power steering pump. Ideally I would run a 3 V-Belt drive on the blower, I prefer that look to a Gilmer Drive belt. If a V-Belt drive is not possible, I will stick with a 2" Gilmer, no reason in my mind for a 3".

Now I just have to find a crank pulley off a 534 Super Duty......

 

I know this is an older thread, but my friend Shaun had a distributor locating problem dues to an intake he made for his FE in his Model A (sister to the MEL engine). He made a 90 degree to shoot the Mallory distributor forward. I am not sure what all it took, but he did this in his home garage when we were in our early 20's (15 years ago) so it should not be too complicated. May not work with your blower snout in that area, but just an idea.

 

There is a 430 Merc powered Dragster on this LP the H&H Garage Special very unique sound http://www.rootsvinylguide.com/ebay...-lp-sounds-in-motion-riverside-1154-stereo-vg

 

Hello,
Speaking of the H&H Garage Special, I bought that album when it first came out and tried to emulate the sound into the movie clips I had of them racing at Lions. But, back then, it was hard to splice in sound after the 16mm movie was already developed. So, I played it on the turntable and showed the film on the screen. My own drag strip...with sounds...in 1961.
Jnaki
If I had a digital copy of that album, I might be able to get it on the section that shows the H&H Garage movie clip on the original movie film. Interested in a trade: digital album for some original movie clips that show some of the same racers on that album? with sound/movie action? Lindley, Sidewinder, Dragmaster, even the Green Monster at Lions, I believe Junior Thompson's Studebaker Gasser is also on this album. That would be a cool project for me.
HERE ARE A COUPLE OF CLIPS THAT WOULD PROBABLY GO WITH THOSE SOUNDS:
H&H GARAGE SPECIAL
SIDEWINDER
KENNY LINDLEY/DON HAMPTON

 

Hello,

For all of you MEL fans, here is the dragster sponsored by H&H Garage. It was driven by Tets Ishimaru. The car had a big Lincoln motor and it was very competitive against the big supercharged Hemi motor racers. The roll bar always was so close to his helmet, that we all commented that it would not be much fun on a roll over. But, it was always driven fast and efficiently. He not only drove this cool looking dragster weekly at Lions, but he was also a drag boat racer with drives in many different boats. In the copied photo, it shows him driving a twin 671 blown Chrysler drag boat.
Jnaki
He was versatile to say the least. He made all of the MEL fans at the local So Cal dragstrips proud. He did all of the wrenching with his fast MEL dragster and mechanical skills. He was also one of the first FED drivers to wear a cool, black, leather jacket while driving.

 

Chris,
That is the route I have settled on going with as well. A simple low backlash right angle drive and a Mallory flathead distributor should work well. It will require a bit of time in standing in front of the lathe and /or mill, but I don't think it will be too difficult. Thanks for the info.

 

Just got my 1960 F100 back. Built the ultimate Lightning F100. Stroked 430 to 510ci. 3x2 carbs & Ford AOD Trans. 500hp & 550tq rear wheels. Runs like a champ & knocks down 27 mpg. Has air, tilt, cruise& power everything else.

 

Pictures Al, or it didn't happen.

I also have a hard time believing your claim of 27 mpg with a 500+ ci carbureted motor in a 4500 lb pickup that wishes it had aerodynamics as good as a brick, OD or not. Unless, you started the clock at the top of Pikes Peak and filled up in Colorado Springs.

 

Update on this old thread. I still have not built the blown MEL motor. Lots of other projects and life have gotten in the way.

I have decided to move away from the Weiand manifold and cast my own intake. There was too many engineering compromises that had to happen to make the Weiand street able. The new intake will hopefully eliminate those issues. I have built a 3D printed model to do fit up and flow testing with, but I have not been able to find a casting house that is willing to do this for less than the cost of a new truck. The search continues...

 

Can you detail how you got to 510? I have a 430 sitting at a friend's place and a boatload of carbs and intakes here. 550 lb-ft sounds like a lot of fun, especially in a '34 5-window that I'm planning for it.

 

@FrozenMerc : That intake looks awesome - is a metal-deposit 3D printer an option?

Curious as to where you're picking up the coolant to the thermostat housing, it looks like the front ports are blocked off.

 

Nitro,
There is a coolant galley that runs under the plenum from the theromstat mount in the front to back of the intake and picks up coolant from the heads at the rear. This way, the water pump pushes the coolant from the front to the back before it exits the heads and block. See Picture below.

My experience with 3D Metal deposit printers is the finished product is too porous for an item such as this. Maybe the technology has improved, but when I did it 10 years ago at a previous job (on dry FI intakes with no coolant), we still had to dip them in epoxy before running them on the engine, in order to stop any air leaks.

 

Check these guys out, they're not far from me and have been around since 1954.
https://nonferrouscasting.com/contact/
They do small jobs for some on the local car clubs too.

 

Ah, gotcha. My 6x2 and 8x2 manifolds have water passages both front and rear, doubtless so that they can go on in either direction.

I'm envious of youse guys who have the time, talent, and, mostly, patience to create things like this. Hope you can find a foundry that doesn't want any future offspring to pour for you.

 

Hello,

Our introduction to MEL motors came from reading about the racers that had them from the time they were taken out of wrecked cars from the local junkyards and put into old hot rods/race cars.

My brother was most impressed with the H&H garage FED as he saw the owner work on his race car. Then putting on his leather jacket, get in and blast down the dragstrip. At the time, most of the racers were using Hemi motors, SBC supercharged motors, but, this was one of two MEL FED race cars.

During the same time, the Grist Brothers had a big MEL motor in their A/Gas chopped Willys Coupe that was winning almost everything in sight. It was an excellent sound and quick to the trophy lanes.
(see below)

Jnaki

Back in 1958-60, the H&H Garage Special was one of the fastest MEL powered racers. Driver, Tets Ishimaru, did all of the wrenching and driving. The H&H group was a regular at Lions Dragstrip weekly and always put on a great show. The bright purple FED always made impressive runs at the Lions Dragstrip and Riverside Raceway, that we saw.

The race car had a big Lincoln motor and it was very competitive against the big supercharged Hemi motor racers. The roll bar was always so close to his helmet, that we all commented that it would not be much fun on a roll over. But, it was always driven fast and efficiently.

H&H Garage MEL, original sound from 1959. H&H garage sound at :22




Note:
Here are some posts from other threads that showcases the H&H Garage Special from Los Angeles.

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum...picture-thread.228509/page-2010#post-14068578

Then of all things, the original chassis was found and work was begun to bring that FED race car back to its original glory and style.

found old chassis reconstruction build by @HenryJGuy

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum...r-found-and-documented.1201244/#post-13687980

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum...r-found-and-documented.1201244/#post-13689923

Note 2:

For other MEL motor builds and information, look up any information about the Grist Brothers Willys Coupe that ruled the A/Gas class at the So Cal dragstrips, also during this time.

From another Grist Bros Willys thread:

"They purchased a 430 cubic inch Lincoln engine and started building on it. They bored and stroked it to 501 cubic inches. They ran a stock “nodular” crankshaft. In the early days Joe Malliard helped with the machine work. After Joe Malliard passed away, Joe Reath started helping with machine work and parts … like a set of Hilborn mechanical fuel injectors. “



“Dempsey Wilson ground all of the camshafts with his "special" grind and Mickey Thompson helped with some aluminum pistons and rods (the compression ratio was around 13 or 14 to 1). A Joe Hunt magneto provided the spark. A guy named Dale Klienhand arranged to have some Headman Headers custom built. The local Autolite and Valvoline distributorships supplied weekly doses of plugs, oil and filters delivered straight to the house.”

“It wasn’t known exactly how many horses were under the hood, but it more than a handful and the track records were dropping most every week. And, Dad and Ralph were right in the middle of it. I’ve still got some of the NHRA certificates of some of their record-breaking runs.”

“At first they had a lot of trouble with spinning bearings. Dad and Ralph learned from Ted Cyr and Leland Kolb about drilling the main oil galleys and drilled them out with a special long drill."


Jeremy Grist
Grist Bros II

 

Sorry to add to an old thread but hoping @FrozenMerc gets to this at some point!
Could you add some height to allow bosses for injectors to be added if needed? Just watching Finnegan build his hemi and it would be great to have that option down the road!

 

would somebody here know where to buy some 1960 mercury 430 pistons nos ones .
would have to be .060 over any help would be appreciated.

 

Rustymetal,
You are not going to find NOS pistons easily, especially 0.060" over sized. Since Ford changed the piston design each year, you are looking for one year oversized unicorns. Keep an eye on ebay and other auction sites. Hopefully someone will find some hiding in the corner of an old shop and put them up for auction, but it will be a tough hill to sled on.

Honestly, your best bet is to get in touch with one of the companies that produce custom pistons and have them make up a set for you. RaceTec, JE Pistons, Wiseco, etc.

Since my old thread was brought back to life, I might as well post an update. The custom intake manifold is finally cast and done, it was completed this summer. Hopefully next year I will have time to tear down this motor and actually start some machine work....

 

Rustymetal,
If you don't have to have nos you might try Egge.

 

The problem with Egge or any of the other off the shelf piston suppliers is they are a generic flat-top that is made to cover multiple years and applications. These pistons will typically lower the compression ratio dramatically and you will see a loss in performance. The piston top defines the combustion chamber as MEL engines have plank heads like diesels or W series Chevy's. Ford liked to tweak the "formula" each year, and hence the pistons vary from year to year and even application to application. Of course the aftermarket piston companies didn't want to hold the inventory or tooling to make a different piston for each year so they made a generic, low compression piston that "works", but disappoints most hot rodders. This is were the custom piston guys come in.

More piston information from the old MEL forum.
http://ford-mel-engine.com/viewtopic.php?t=67

 

crank up that blower o/drive!(and blow out the egge pistons sadly)

 

FrozenMerc, you have our admiration and respect, sir! Only those who've tried to have custom aluminum castings produced have any idea of the magnitude of your accomplishment.

However, take with caution the advice of those who are bound to encourage you to have hundreds finished and offered for sale to the vast universe of those who want to build a GMC-blown MEL.
jack vines

 

Patsurf,
My plan is to offset grind the crank down to BBC journal size, and use BBC 6.7" rods with 427 BBC pistons. If I did my math correctly, that should get me down to about 8:1 compression, perfect for a blown application, and BBC rods and pistons are much more readily available and designed for high performance forced induction applications.

Jack,
Thanks for the kind words, I had some great help to finally get that intake over the finish line. We cast two of the intakes up, and I imagine that should satisfy the majority of the market. If someone wants one bad enough, they can reach out to me and I will be more than willing to help them through the process, or they can just purchase my Weiand intake from the classifieds!