Body Shop Horror Stories & The one to stay away from.

I am reluctant to venture down this road. The last time I did it was related to Avatars! Yipes!

But I don't want any fellow HAMB'ers getting burned like I did. I had gotten hooked up with a new business in Hurst, Texas called "Charlie Cooper Restorations". I new the owner well when he worked for another local body shop. Also knew his old man for years. Should be okay right? Anyway, this kid just graduated from McPherson University in KS with a degree in auto restoration. So I'm thinking, hey what a great way for a young kid with a new business to get his dreams off the gound with his first paying customer. He would get recognized at local shows, free publicity so forth and as a result more business. I hoped, and my expectations were getting ready to be drug in the stinky stuff!
I had him come over look my project over, under, inside and out, up and down and he gave me a estimate. We agreed and I gave him a check as downpayment. He wanted to use lead were he could, no bondo, and make patches as needed. It was impressive and almost to good to be true. DING DING DING. Danger Will Robinson!
So I hauled the project over in pieces, frame and all. It was a '41 Ford PU so there was not many big items.
It started off like gangbusters. He got alot of work done in the first few months. Then as his business gained speed my project slowed. In the mean time I'm paying him about $1000.00 every 45 days more or less. This went on for about a year. Then all work stopped and the truck began to collect dust. In the mean time I'm getting all kinds of BS excusses as to why mine is not getting done. This went on for almost 2 1/2 years. At that time I had paid him about $6000.00. Mistake!
The truck continued to sit with numerous promises of completion. The frame finally got painted and buffed in spring of 2008. Then some bozo he fired took a screwdriver to the frame! So there it sat for another two months until it got redone. In the mean time my brand new MACS bed got flash rust all over it because he parked it next to the door and left it open when it rained. My oak body mounts got lost and the little tiny pieces that no one makes in restoration had gone AWOL. Crap!! I just can't catch a brake~! We had a "come to Jesus" meeting and he agreed to finish it. Again this went on for another year. So after 3 1/2 years I was steemed. I catch him at his work, read him the riot act and demand he get done or the scales of Justice are going to pay him a visit. He said yea and his attorney would meet mine in a dark alley and duke it out. We finnally let cooler heads prevail and he agreed to commit to finishing it, if I paid him $15 grand! WHAT you talking about Willis?
I reminded him that he agreed to the original estimate and that was what I would cover. But being the good sport I am, (SUCKER MORE LIKE IT). I aggreed to pony up another $2g's if he would finish it in three months. He said fine, he would do it and we shook on it. Guess what... No movement! Damn! So I decided, upon legal advice, thank God for brother-in-law the attorney, swooped in with a convoy of pickups and gathered up my project! Of course he was stund and kept saying he would finish it just give him some time. Good luck.

So I have moved on to another paint shop that I got some HAMB recomendations on. And in a matter of two months, they have the cab work done and in primer, doors hung and aligned and fenders ready for paint.

My point of this length dissertation is to warn you of this business first of all. But to also leave you with some advice. By the way, all coming from the shop I am now using.

1. Get the estimate in writing and have a rough timeline confirmed by the shop. Even if you have known the business for years.
2. Let them know your expectaion of the project. Your vision of the final result. Make sure your expectations are realistic based on the dollars your willing to spend. If you want a Fooze job on a Maaco budget..It ain't gonna happen!
3. Check and recheck the BBB and local rodders for thier take on the shop your planning to use. Don't be afraid to ask them for past project references. It's your money!
4. Oh yes, Money...Never pay all up front. Pay in stages of completion. Usually in thirds. 1/3 at the beginning...1/3 midway in the project....1/3 at completion. Work with the shop on this. Good ones will work with you on this. They want good publicity as well.
5. Be fair...Always let them know if you not happy about something. Don't wait until the end to bring it up! It maybe too late to correct the issue.

I know...I screwed myself on this project. I should have been more realistic and cautious. I was caught up in the moment of helping a young gun get started based on my history with him. But in away I was due. Legally I was in the toilet. No contract...No witnesses...

I just want to make sure you fellow HAMB'ers don't get the shaft like I did with out the honeymoon sauve!

 

sounds like what happened to me.


http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=305709

 

Don,t get me started about the local asshole who tried to fuck me over.....Big thanks to Mikes Customs and Classics of Parry Sound for finishing up my car for me! Mike Steinsland who finished up my car has had several Ridler contenders come out of his shop.The original asshole almost went to the hospital.....

 

Well hell wheres pics of the truck??? I'm glade at least you have it in another shop and getting done now. Hate it for your luck. My Dad always said Don't do Business with freind.. Business is Business and thats all it is.Not freinds when it comes to money. Thats my .02

 

Well why did you let the truck stay so long and not take it back ?? You say you paid about $6000 did the truck have $6000 with teh frame and all when it sat? If you were gonna pay another $2000 then that sounds like you felt the work done was the $6000 you paid for,,( No one nice guys $2000 specially after waiting so long ),,This seems confusing,,,I can understand work stopage if the time and materials put into something equal what has been paid for,,

And your trashing of this guy is a time thing,,you seem happy with his work ( quality )...your truck sat there for how long ? and no storage charge?

 

This is extremely common. I took an A sedan to a local shop for bodywork and paint where it sat for 7 months untouched. Then they started working on it and I wished they'd left it alone. They finally installed the firewall, then for some unknown reason they started on the floors. They cut out all the original Model A braces, then welded in some rusty 1" tubing and rusty sheetmetal. Before I could get over there, they had cut out the master cylinder and moved it forward 6 inches because it looked too close to the trans to them. What part of the body work is the fucking master cylinder? I returned with a trailer the next day and picked up the remains, and it took the disgruntled shop owner over an hour to find everything I brought in. Yet people still flocked to this guy and last year, he was put out of business. Seems as though he had "forgotten" to pay his rent on the shop and the landlord pushed every car outside and chained the doors. The bodyman (I use the term loosely) never bothered to call even one person with a car to tell them he was out of business, so they sat there until they found out through the rumor mill that their car was sitting outside. One of the cars was a '70 Nova that the owner bought new, and nobody had ever driven except him, so to say it had sentimental value was an understatement. Nearly all the interior parts were lost and the car sat outside in the rain, in bare steel, for over a week. What amazes me is that people were beating this guys door down in an effort to get their car in his shop, even though he had a reputation of sub-par work and HEAVY bondo use. He now paints for a collision shop and has caused them no end to the headaches...want the number?

 

Some one doesn't understand the problem here

 

Dont you know any one in the Hells Angles ? I can tell ya it works here .

 

this problem has been around for as long as there have been body shops. The best one I ever witnessed had to be about forty years ago. Gal I knew was having her vette painted by one of these money begging, non-producing body shops. She played the game for about nine months and then called me to help her pick up her car. I had a trailer.
We get there, and the shop owner starts yelling at her about not paying enough, not giving enough time, and just being a general pain in the ass. I start loading the car, and I hear, "That suppose to scare me?" I look over my shoulder and see she has a gun pointed at the guy.
I load faster.
She walks over to guy, demands her money back, all the while pointing the gun.
He laughs, "I ain't got it. Guess you're gonna have to shoot me."
SO SHE DOES. Right in the nuts. Then holds her hand out.
The owner, reaches into his pocket and hands her a wad of bills.
She leans in real close to the guy, whispers something in his ear, shoves the gun back into his groin area and he nods.
I'm out of there real quick, and drop the car at another body shop. Then took a little road trip.
She stops by later that evening asking what she owes for the use of trailer. Just an explaintion I tell her.
Seems she'd asked around the shop owner after he started screwing her. So she cooked up this little plan.
To make sure he had the money, she had one of her friends offer to sell him a car.
Also found out he was some kinda a gun nut, so he had a few at the shop.
she shot him with a gun just like one he had.
The whispering was to inform him that he would be telling the cops he'd shot himself, and if he didn't, she'd have somebody come back and burn the shop with him in it.
Funny thing was I knew this gal from the bank I did business with.
Thought she worked loans. Turned out she worked collections...lol.
as a side note... new shop did a great job on the car, and delivered it on time.

 

my uncle took his 40 ford coupe to a window shop and for some reason they didn't want to give him his car back. he paid for the work they did the work but they liked his car and wanted to keep it i guess. well they don't know my family to well. so my 2 uncles went over there and looked in the shop and there it was so they waited till they opened and the door was open my uncle mike distracted him as my other uncle blocked the door and rolled out the car. still don't know what they were thinking on tring to keep a car that was not theres......jones

 

beware of clay cook enterprises- Erlanger Kentucky

 

Customer stories and the ones to stay away from:

1. Never work without a deposit.

2. Put everything in writing

3. Tell the customer what is going to happen before it happens.

4. Dont let the customer set the completion date if it is unreasonable.

I just delivered a car that was in my shop for one year because the customer could not pay the bill after I paid for materials and I paid my staff to fix it.....I got paid one year later.

Dont get me wrong, I know where you are coming from.

 

happende to me on my 37 ford, guy took me for 13 grand had do all the work over primo gennie hard to find parts lost.

and then i took a 60 buick to another guy in des mones iowa took the cat apart lost intrest story just like your lost another 10,000+

both cars had to be hauled out in pieces, i heard it on the phoen from guys but never thought it would happen to me.

 

I distrust painters!!!!! You guys have a bad rap due to the solid assholes that clog up the hobby.

 

Yes, I'll say it again.

 

Never handshake with anyone under 65 years old. A handshake with someone under 65 is nothing more than a greeting. It has been my experience that handshakes mean nothing now-a-days. Get everything in writing, detailed, and with time lines.

 

i say again

 

...and never deal with anyone named "Rat" either.

 

"Two weeks", took six months for me., picked up the car went somewhere else.

 

This is an awesome story! She did her research and played on his interests to get her money. Then she has the balls to actually follow through when he becomes a smartass. If more of what this lady did would take place we'd have less of this stuff going on.

I threated to make a business a drive through once using my van because they didn't do what they said they would do. They didn't believe me till I pulled my van up to the waiting area window to get a good idea of where my entry point was going to be, then backed up and as I was putting it in low the reception gal ran out to stop me an "talk". They fixed the problem. The key is to remain calm and tell them exactly what you are going to do, then do it in a calm assertive manner.

 

My Willys suffered a similar fate...twice. The first guy removed the dash, the drip rails, and the support brace between the trunk and passenger compartment "to make more work space..." That's as far as he went. Almost a year later, and several thousand dollars , an inch of dust has accumulated, and my body is being used as storage for his paint and supplies. And the stuff he removed had been lost or?
The second guy decided he was going to start by replacing the trunk floor, the outer pan below the deck lid and the trunk weatherstrip channel...with parts I supplied. He did all this without using the fenders as a body length guide. So I finally get the body back from him (a year later) and guess what......it's 3 inches too short to match the fender length. I cut everything loose and the body goes "BOING"...now the length is close to correct. Nothing he had done could be saved or salvaged.

Combined, counting the parts I had to replace from the first experience, the new parts from the second incident that were unusable, requiring replacement (again), the wasted materials, and the "labor" I paid for, I'm now out almost 9K, and the loss of 2 years in build up time.

I buy a welder, a sheet metal brake, and a bunch of body tools, and start on my own...it's only metal, right? A year later and help/direction/support from wifey and friends, it's in primer as a roller....

I WILL NEVER AGAIN PAY A "SHEET METAL RESTORATION SPECIALIST" A DIME OUT OF POCKET TO WORK ON MY CARS. There are competent/professionals out there, but it's the crooks, thieves, con men, and wanna bees out there that give them a bad rap.

Oh yea.....court action/legal action proved to be a waste of time and energy. They close up and disappear under the cover of darkness, only to resurface a few months later under a new name to do it again to another unsuspecting schmuck.

 

This is why I learned to do it myself, mite not be as "perfcect" but I can say I did it myself! On some of my hi-end projects I have paid others but we come to terms on a deadline and every day its late, he starts nockin off $$$'s It works! Also, small deposit up front and the balance when complete, If I know I dont eat till the jobs done I'm gonna, GET-R-DONE. Through the years I've learned who I can trust.

 

Hmm.. theres a few resto shops like that here .. thats what they use to pay the wages every two weeks to there employees.. except some places around here are 5 times that amount..

Thats why you have New members and Old members always asking for how toos? on this site.. they cant afford to get burnt.. I dont blame them either.. trial and error is cheaper than lining some ones pockets..

 

Story of my life...

Treat every deal as you would a construction contract. Everything in writing or you do not deliver it. Agree timescales and both of you sign. Any change orders to be agreed in writing and signed by both parties. Make sure you have a lawyer who understands automotive stuff - the best friend you hope you'll never need. Show the body shop owner a paint thickness gauge before they start work and agree the amount of Bondo allowed. Request a set of complaint forms from your local state consumer agency - here in CA it's the Bureau of Automotive Repair. Make sure the owner understands this is a private contract (not business to business - B2B), if they are not licensed you then have them by the cojones and can set the State pit bulls on them.

Most importantly of all photograph or video everything before during and after with accurate date and time stamp - the camera is your other best friend.

Lastly, even if they have done work for you before, some can go bad (drugs, alcohol problems etc.) so make it clear that you have a standard M.O. from which you will not deviate and that there are military like procedures. Any failure to observe protocol on their part results in instant vehicle collection.

Keep thoroughly detailed records of all payments, copies of checks etc. and a log of payments - beware the mechanic's lien.

I speak from multiple personal experience. The last guy tried to steal my car by filing a mechanics lien for "extra work" he claimed he had done. My documented weekly payment schedule proved otherwise and the car was removed and the lien satisfied after my attorney advised his attorney of the alternative consequences. Even so the guy had still comprehensively fucked up the car and I will be draining and flushing the gas tank and checking all lines for pinholes before I fire it up and go for a ride. Always check for malicious damage. My 0.02c

 

4 years at an alliance vendors shop in san jose for suspension front and rear. still not done. and i've been paying. i was told that they're going towards full builds that would get them more publicity.

 

Since I wrote this at 2:26 am so I forgot some of the other details that came to light after I moved it to another shop.
The original shop had cut the skin off the passenger door to fix a door hinge, which he cut the rivets out. He straighten the hinge and "welded" not "riveted" the hinge back in place and also rewelded the door skin back on. Oh yea, I forgot to mention he did this without putting the door back in the cab frame, attaching it to the post hinges and checking the alignment!!! When the new shop set the doors into check final alignment, do you think it fit! HELL NO!! So it cost me another door, which I am still looking for.....
Oh yea, the drivers door had to have a 1/8 inch of bondo shaved off as well as the roof and back of the cab. Remember in the beginning he told me he would use no bondo. Skim coat's I can understand with finishing glaze/putty but not bondo plastered on!

The guy doing the work now ran into the kid a couple of weeks ago and told him how sorry the work he did on the truck was. He told him that the truck was ready for paint. Not even close they told him.

I am sorry others have had issues. But we all learn and it's good we can pass on the does and don'ts to other HAMB'ers.

I'll post some pics of the project so far. The frame is finished and the running gear is installed.

 

I had a '62 Bel Air Sport Coupe, yep, a real bubbletop, almost 20 years ago and after getting the run-a-round from a few body men, I purchased a small 110-volt Lincoln MIG Welder (even came with a Hot-To Video!), a Sawzall, and a few other basic metal cutting tools and learned how to do it myself. Kinda funny that the final tool cost was equal to the "estimates" I had for quarter panel/rocker panel replacement. It turned out fine and in the end I had some nice tools, but even better I had gained some great new skills! In fact, these days I get paid as the TIG welding guy at work, but it all started back with that '62 Chevy!

 

sadly i've found things to be the same here in the Uk, i've been playing with cars since i was 18 (21 years ago) and have had so many let downs from "professionals" its shocking.
but like Faded and some others have said...the upshot of the disappointments are that i learnt to weld...then paint and now get a real kick from being able to say (apart from the interiors)that i do almost everything myself.
i'm currently waiting on my magneto thats been with the rebuilder for 10 months after a promised rebuild time of 3 weeks maximum. and so it goes on.........

 

Pics of the PU during construction and mockups. Frame painted and complete. All work done by me and my sons. Of course except for the paint. This was the only piece I got back from the original shop! $6000.00 frame paint job!!

 

This is a HOBBY.
I think a hobby is doing the hobby YOURSELF.
If you guys' hobby was stamp collecting would you pay someone else to put the stamps in the albums?
Yea, some of you probably would...

Do your own damn body work, do all the work yourself, or quit complaining, or get another hobby that you are competent to do for yourself!

As for the not being any good at body work excuse, do you pay a pro to screw your wife because you're not too good at that either?