Body Shop owners, need your help

I think a good rule of thumb is whatever you think it should cost to have something done, and done right, double your estimate.
Like so many have said, if you have never hung a set of doors or done any perfect body work, (what we all expect) try it. You'll quickly understand why your paycheck goes so quickly. from another old body guy.......

 

Its possible to spend that much time. Better be PERFECT for that tho..I did a 46 ford like that and had to cut the doors and weld em back up to make the gap fit. Had about 6hrs per door with cutting welding and fitting.

 

what a bold statement. maybe he's good at making money and doesn't have time to play with hinges. there's no shame in not doing your own work, and there's nothing wrong with asking people who know about this stuff if his bill seems off. hiring other tradesmen helps make the world go 'round.

 

not taking sides and have not seen your truck, but if those doors fit and shut perfect then that sounds like a good deal.

 

Surely, you were not billing your customers for all the time spent taking pics and documenting every step of your work were you? If so sounds like your jobs cost about double what they should have......LOL

 

1st off is this friend a real shop owner and did you get anything in writing before you made the mistake of paying upfront for the work. If you don"t have anything in writing its your own fault for letting it go for 4 years before doing anything. Paying upfront is never good. Your money went to other customers cars that were smart enough not to pay until they were satisfied with the work.

 

I refuse to take money upfront unless its to order parts. But we do bill out weekly so as to stay on top of things and have more interaction with the customer.

Its nearly impossible to estimate old cars. People say "well you guys have done hundreds of XX you should know how much XX costs".

I have to say, "how rusty are your bolts? How much bondo is under all those layers of paint? Is there anything to weld to under that quarter panel that needs to be cut off? Is the aftermarket panel going to fit? Etc...In all honesty you can have 4 of the same cars lined up next to each other that need about the same amount of things done and they'll all come out to different total costs.

New parts these days means nothing more than that, new. Doesn't mean it will be even close to what its supposed to replicate....

 

Absolutely not.

I track my time to the minute.... If I stop to take a leak or go in the house to get a cup of coffee I "clock out". It only takes a second to jot the notes I need to update my work log in the evenings.. Photos take seconds to snap.

The labor rates I charged were far below those typical in my area..by about 50%.

By keeping a log that was accurate I saved time, for both the customer and myself, by forestalling questions, arguments, and debates over what was being done.

Here's a sample....

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=738350

 

Rich,
I understood what you were saying and already seen and followed your model A body thread. I was just being a smartass.....LOL

 

16 hours sounds reasonable to me. I just spent 3 days on a 50's Cadillac. That time included resizing the door (cut/weld) to fit the opening perfectly and playing with rebuilt hinges and strikers etc. Not an easy or quick task by any stretch.

As others have mentioned, Chevy trucks fit TERRIBLY from the factory in most cases. Add to that the rigors and abuse of 60 years and it can take a lot to get things lined up by modern standards.

If the doors fit and they are charging you 16 hours, I'd say they did a good job. Now, if stuff still doesn't line up...you may have a problem.

Good luck.

 

I just restored a 1954 chev pu for a customer and we replaced hinges and door strikers it was a estimated 5 to 6 hrs for each door that is from removing all old shit and installing new shit and I say shit cause half this after market stuff never fits right.To be honest I was surprised it went that well so hope this helps you out.

 

This is your bigger problem;

" Long story short. This has been going on 4 years. I pulled the truck after nothing being done for over 2 years. Like a fool I paid them up front for work to be done"

NEVER/EVER let a contractor be ahead of you on work performed vs. % of job paid out. Paying out front simply takes away their incentive to do quality work-or do it at all.
We hear this too often on the HAMB and it always seems to have to do with body & paint shops. Car 'A' gets started, then gets put on the back burner while car 'B' and 'C' get worked on. Home remodelers get into this pilot game routine too. They demo the kitchen in house 'B', then disappear with the money to finish house 'A'-or skip town.

FWIW, I'm not a pro body man but, I logged 40 hours into getting all 6 hinges straightened and the door gaps right when hanging the doors on the 34 5/w in my avatar. Doors can be a bitch. Hope this all works out for you in the long run.

 

16 hours is in the normal aspects . have like others run into the 2-3 8 hour days trying to get the lines perfect only to find the fender isn't aligned , Most body guys demand perfection , the ones who don't who do it fast are wack and packers or mudd cutters we call them ( they wack out the dent and pack it full of bondo and cut the mudd to make the lines ) the guy I worked with demanded perfection and often would eat a hour of too of his billed time, but considered the work is his business card . you don't get business if the work is sloppy no matter what the price, 98 % of the people want it better than OEM when they get there vehicles back and the gaps all even as they stick out like a sore thumb and doors are the biggest pain as they have 4 axises you have to adjust , and the magazines and tv shows make it sound like its easy to do , as I would tell people who would come in and say "well Car crap,or Hot turd magazine says it should cost this or take this long and it can't be that hard " , I would tell them, well take it to them to have the work done .. most people do not have a clue whats all involved with doing body work its a lot of manual work , and when it gets screwed up , often it has to start back from the begining .

 

This is why I don't work on other people's stuff anymore.


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Most of the others have pretty much covered it. The only thing I have to add, and I think it is VERY important.....is that you are working with a shop that you TRUST!
This sort of work takes a lot of time and money, and unless you have a ton of either, it is a big sacrifice for any of us to build a nice car. You really need to assess the relationship with your body guy, and either get confidence in him and his work, and faith that he is doing you right in his charging hours, or move on to another shop, that you can trust. It can be hard to do, and if you've never done this type of work on old cars, it can be confusing how much time it takes to do simple things., even things that body shops can knock out easily on newer cars.
Believe me, it's just as hard on the shop owner, sometimes, as it is on customers. I often take a hit on hours billed on cars I work on, and the customer, unless he was actually there to see the amount of work and frustration, still thinks you're getting over on him! But if you've got a good relationship with them, hopefully they will understand.

 

Unfortunately in our hobby this scenario is the rule rather than the exception. I found a great restoration shop in Omaha: Raw Body Custom. He worked on my 40 Ford sedan at $40 per hour. I took it to him after media blasting, with all sheet metal and trim off of it. Just the body on a rolling chassis. He replaced body bolts and mounts, did patch panels on both door bottoms, front quarters, tail pan, and rockers. saved really rough metal fenders, painted black with flames, and complete re-assembly except glass and interior in 4 months. He asked for half upfront, $1000 when ready for paint, and balance when finished. DID GREAT WORK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

see " my 40 ford build" on hamb for pic's

 

I had a '49 and another for years. My doors never fit well. I am not a body guru but I do own a machine shop.

Sounds like a bad situation all the way around. I would cut your losses and move on. Don't pour good money after bad.

 

It never hurts to get 3-5 refs, from past or former customers. Then there were the cruise-coffee shop gatherings to ask at. I usually worked for a shop, haven't hired too much out.