Technical brakes

Pardon the slip. You and most others knew what I meant

 

Thank you, Sir..

Ben

 

i live in rural area so alot if state roads.

 

We actually need to teach people to not "reinvent the wheel"
Vendors like "Skeerbird" are only component suppliers, that are actually relying on the competence [or incompetence] of their customers
As soon as sombody adds a front disc brake conversion they upset the whole brake balance of the vehicle. There is a shitload of math and variable factors involved [more than an online calculator can provide]

My advice is "leave it alone" but if you insist on added upgraded components, then select a whole donor vehicle of similar weight/wheelbase and cannibalize all the matching components.
The factory's have some pretty good enginneers that have done the "hard yards" in designing brakes for multiple conditions [but people think that "romantic" components are better]

I have yet seen a hotrod with DIY upgraded brakes that can stop as good as a 35-40 year old Japanese Hatchback.

Don't worry ! I''ve got your back here.

From the magical world of "wikipedia" [below]

Drum brakes have a natural "self-applying" characteristic, better known as "self-energizing." The rotation of the drum can drag either one or both of the shoes into the friction surface, causing the brakes to bite harder, which increases the force holding them together. This increases the stopping power without any additional effort being expended by the driver, but it does make it harder for the driver to modulate the brake's sensitivity.

 

All of this. Thanks Kerry!

 

Adequate brakes are needed to safely load and unload your vehicle from a trailer. Stopping will done by the parachute.

 

My disk brakes where made in the 40s.

 

i tried adj by the motor book today. thought i had it good pedal. first hit pulled right. second time got. better. and better. now this. ar has been in garage over 20 years not moved. i replaced wheel cyls mast cyl ,had a early 60s chevy rear axle i loose the pedal i’m going to adj rear in the morning i did notice one of the brass adj on bottom was pretty worn. i’ll keep diggin at it. thanks all. i really don’t want to put disc on it. when ya hit the brakes pretty hard ya feel a good roller feel , like a bearing. all bearings were cleaned and checked and greased.

 

another question. i notice on replacement brakes the lining are all full. , mine has a long lining and a short. long lining on back of front plate and short on front of plate. correct?

 

In this case, no. Those are the guidelines for Bendix brakes.

In the case of Lockheed brakes, which the early Ford ones are, it is the reverse. Long in the front, short in the rear of each backing plate.

 

that’s they way i have them. well i got a pretty good pedal now. adj the rears and made a hell of a difference. has a little pull to the right. i’ll jack back up and check adj again

 

shoot i guess mine are wrong then. i’ll have to double check. i put back on the way they came off.

 

1940 Fords came with Lockheed brakes.
1st photo is stock 1940 Ford left rear brake. Driver side
Second photo is stock 1940 Ford left front. Pass. side
Longer shoes go on the front.
Larger dia. of wheel cyl. faces toward longer shoe.

 

For real? I just learned something new today! I've always thought it was always the Bendix way. What's the reason for the Lockheeds being backwards?

I may have to go fix something else on my car now.

 

The larger bore [staggered wheel cylinder] and larger shoe go to the front

 

A couple of things should be noted on a Ford Lockheed wheel cylinder, and the backing plate.


There are only three bolts. This is so you know if you put it on the wrong side.

The other thing to note, is that this is a dual-bore wheel cylinder. One is larger than the other.

Lead shoe, trailing shoe. Each requires a different volume of fluid to move the shoe against the drum, so one gets there first.



Small-bore, small-piston, less fluid volume to move it the same distance, shoe arrives at the drum first.

Unlike Bendix brakes, the other end of each shoe is constrained by bolt, so the shoes don't interact.

With Bendix brakes, the lead shoe grabs, rotation causes it to push on the adjuster, which pushes on the trailing shoe, which is also being pushed at the other end, by the wheel cylinder.

Hence "self-energizing".

 

well i’ll have to pull drum off see way mine is. thanks for pics. i’m pretty sure they are backwards.

 

Lockheed brakes have shoes 'anchored' at bottom. The shoe that contacts the anchor pin has the longest lining.
In a Bendix brake, there's NO anchor pin at the bottom; It's now at the top. Both shoes expand and the one that arrives at the anchor pin (in this case, the rear shoe) will have the long lining, as it's the 'working shoe'. the front shoe is the 'servo' shoe, so shorter lining.
It's all about the anchor, and the direction of the drum!

 

With Bendix brakes, the more pressure you put in the system, the more the lead shoe pushes both against the drum, AND against the trailing shoe!

It amplifies the work you put in.

With Lockheed brakes, the lower end of both shoes are always in contact with the anchor. The shoes do not interact.

The one associated with the small bore and piston gets the short lining.

 

What's the reason for the Lockheeds being backwards?
The Bendix Brake system is self energizing whereby the brake shoes are pulled tight against the drum
when the shoes contact the drum as the drum rotates. That's why the longer shoe is positioned facing the back of the drum. This provides improved stopping power. Lockheed brakes do not have this feature and were eventually replaced by Bendix style brakes.
This site tells how Bendix Brakes works better than Lockheed.
Drum Brake System Basics - Night School (motortrend.com)

 

what brand they don't look like Lambert?

 

Front discs on my40 make it safe to drive in todays traffic.

 

well pulled drum off. mine are correct i think it’s just fine tuning adj on front now, the back brake adj fixed the low pedal. i think will do u til i get the disc. found a piece in my stash for master cyl.

 

this is the part

 

I have a nice 36 five window/hot rod flathead(60 years flathead experience) 5 spd manual, 66 Ford pickup nine inch. I run the 90 finned Buick(little later years than 45 fin) and am very satisfied with the braking performance—-no power brakes,no proportioning valve, dual non power m/c under floor. These drum brakes work quite well for my use. Flatheads Forever!!

 

Kinmont I think.

 

If we stuck strictly to 1965 cutoff, not sure even a dual reservoir master would be allowed for many builds.

 

There are two basic drum brake designs, servo and non-servo. Bendix is servo, Lockheed is non-servo.

A servo design places most of the braking force on the upper rear secondary shoe, the reason the rear linings are longer and usually of a different and sometimes thicker material than the shorter front primary linings.

Non-servo, in particular the Lockheed fixed anchor design, places most the the braking force on the lower front primary shoe, and is the reason the front linings are longer, along with larger wheel cylinders, than the shorter rear secondary linings and smaller wheel cylinders.

 

Only if it came from an AMC or a Cadillac.

 

took a drive in car today. first longer drive 15 miles shake down run. ran great ,stop not so good. ya no when rotors get warped? that’s what it feels like while stopping. mmm