broken head bolt... broken extractor.. what now?

did a hamb seach on Extracting broken bolts, good info there. but did'nt work for me. now ive got a real mess, a broken extractor i cant get out.

i talked to a machine shop, thay said they can pull a stud, but they p*** on any thing with a broken extractor in it. the guy said" we dont have a drill bit hard enough to drill a extractor". and suggested "EDM lazer".what now? -josh

 

Went through this exact thing this winter. Crank the heat on the welder and weld a nut with ID as close to stud size as possible. While it's good and red hot, back it out slowly with a breaker bar (my impact broke the weld more than once). Once it starts to move, don't stop and it SHOULD come out.

 

yes, that was the first thing i tryed, no luck. its somewhat counter sunk now, if i tryed it now, i think i might be welding the block.

 

Also when it's red hot, get some wax and get it to melt down into the threads...

Don't ask what kind of wax... This is an old trick that I'm just repeating to hear myself talk... I hope one of the vintage hot rodders on here can illuminate you and me at the same time.

 

Everybody has to learn the secret truth about EZ Outs first hand--I can't even remember my introduction or what I did, but I remember clearly that it was all awful. Is this a head bolt?? I'm thinking this is maybe a job for oxy acetylene.

 

yes, its a head bolt above the exhaust valve on my 37 flathead.

 

Have a look at this site:

http://www.geocities.com/jim_mason_49913/brokenstuds.html

It details (with pictures) welding a washer down first then a nut to remove the broken stud.
Hope this helps
Good luck

 

I have got about 5 broken studs in my flathead now

I tried welding a nut with no luck, even took it to work where we have some heavy duty welders but still no luck, just kept breaking the weld.
If the welding doesent work you could try stellite drills but you gotta get them baby's red hot to work or you could get someone to use spark errosion which will get it out.

Good luck

 

i have not used an ez out in 12 years since learning the nut trick. i have gotten some broken bolts out that where 3/16 below the deck surface.

 

EDM is electrical discharge machining. It uses an electric current and an electrode shaped the same as the hole you want. The hole does not have to be round, it can be anything. The EDM process uses fluid that submerges the electrode and the hole. It will remove the metal no matter what hardness it is. This is not something that a home shop can do. You may have to take it to a traditional machine shop, not just your engine machine shop, to find a EDM machine.

I do not have any other ideas that will work except for the EDM. The welding does not work well on the extractor because it is real high carbon content.

 

E-Z outs are almost impossible to drill out. The only way I`ve seen them removed is to take a SHARP chisel and hammer away. The e-z out is hardened and will shatter (splinter?) just pull it out in pieces. Anyone know any other ways?

 

I think we need an opinion from a torch guru--I've heard it is possible to blow away the stud remnant without affecting the block.

 

What he said.
And
Wear some SAFETY GOGGLES!!!!!!!

The EZout pieces WILL take an eye out!

I use a 1/4" wide chisel and keep working at it, hammering on one side and then the other like im cutting pie, and angle the chisel so it's hits will TIGHTEN the stud into the hole, that will break the rust loose below the threads and let the stud come loose, when you see it move, and it will, then reverse angle on the chisl and back it back out. You can leave the EZ out in it while you do this if you can just get it loose enough in the stud that it's not spreading the stud against the block walls.

This takes Patience!!!
The last one I did was a couple weeks ago for a guy who had been working for three days trying to get a broken waterpump bolt out of the end of a Northstar.
I think I worked on it about half an hour before it budged, but it came out!

 

I've done this before so I know it works. I took a carbide tipped router bit that was made for v-grooving, it was probably 5/16 or 3/8 across at the widest part. Put it in a drill and try to get in the center of the peice. Put a lot of pressure on the drill, beleive it or not it'll cut the ez. It worked for me. once you get a hole through it you can do like somebody else suggested and take a punch and chip it out a little at a time. good luck and be patient. Stafford

 

This is the 21st Century, there's always something harder you can use to cut something else. I can drill holes in endmill shanks and ******* files with just what I have on had right now.

Easy-outs are typically just hardened high-carbon steel. The better ones are tempered, the cheap ones are just hard and brittle.

A solid carbide drill bit will drill an easy-out, and they're not that expensive. The problem is, they need a rigid setup, as in a drill press or mill, rather than being handheld. The other problem is, the end of the easy out usually doesn't break off smooth and flush, making it difficult to start the carbide drill straight.

If I have to remove a broken stud or bolt, if I can get it into the mill, I'll drill it with either a carbide straight-flute bit, going medium-slow with plenty of oil, or a solid cobalt spade bit going faster with no lube, which will heat the material being drilled to red-hot and then cut it away.

But again, that requires the part be able to be mounted to the mill. At last resort, an EDM (Electrical Discharge Machining) can bore it out, but that costs more, and unless you have a shop with bolt-extraction EDM hardware right there in town, it can get pretty spendy to ship a whole engine block somewhere.

If the nut-weld trick hasn't worked and you have a borken easy out in there already, you may be stuck with EDM as your only option at the moment.

Doc.

 

I extracted two broken exhaust manifold bolts this weekend. It was total hell! I broke two EZ outs. They just twisted off….what a waste. I tried welding a nut. It didn’t hold partly because the engine is still in the car and I couldn’t get a good weld on it.

I got them out by using a dremel tool. I cut a slot into the broken bolt to resemble a screw. I could use a strong screw driver to back the bolts out. Because the bolts were broke off inside the head, I did cut into the head a little bit with the dremel too. It was tough, but in the end it worked.

On one of the bolts, this worked right away. On the other bolt, because it was so tight, I also drilled out most of the bolt using a flexible shaft on my drill motor before I could back out the bolt.

Mike

Edit: This is on a 1994 Impala with little or no rust.

 

I saw this and immediately went over next door and removed a broken-off head bolt from the neighbor's Fiero. It was broken off about 1/4" below the block's surface.

HINT:....use a washer that's fairly thick with no plating. If it has any plating, grind it off before welding...same with the nut. Pick a large diameter washer with a center hole the same size [close, anyway] as the stud... This will give you a lot of area to weld when attaching the nut to the flat-washer. Pick a nice, big nut too. It'll give you more area to weld and won't be as prone to rounding-off when you put "the pythons" to it....
turn the busted-off bolt out as soon as the nut looses it's red glow....let it return to a black color or you'll round off the nut or break the weld but don't let the weld cool too much before unscrewing the bolt...you need the heat from welding......
Try again with big, unplated nut and warsher.....
BTW...the text says to "Chase the threads with an easy out"
Uhhhhhhhhh.........that's insanity. Never chase the threads of a flathead block with anything that cuts threads, like a thread chaser or a tap. They're a special interference-fit thread and will likely leak coolant if you screw with them. Besides, an easy-out won't work as a tap anyway. An easy-out is how you got into this pickle in the first place...
Back away from the easy-out.....

 

I've worked for years as a plastic injection mold maker (hi tolerance machinist),
and I gotta agree with docsmachine, Carbide drill in the mill is the way to go.
I've never tried it in a drill press, no control up and down.

With a mill, you can leave the drill spinning in a locked in the up position, and bring the part to be drilled up to the carbide drill/cutter with the knee of the mill.

Feed the part into the drill slowly, and use a little oil. spin the drill(1/4"dia) at around 1500 rpm or so, adjust drill speed until you get a nice silver/gold chip to come off of it. If you see sparks, the drill is dull!
Carbide is VERY! brittle, so it has to be a solid set-up. Any chatter and the
cutting edge will get wiped out in a hurry.

Thats about all I can remember right now, I'm on some pretty heavy medication these days.

 

Josh; Sounds like you've done as much Home remedy as you can. I see your in Portland Oregon. I have a friend there that's a supurb machinist, fabricator, Hot Rodder. If I was going to farm this job out he would be the first person I'd call. You might want to give him a try, Gilbertson Machine on 7th and Yamhill 503-233-6491
The Wizzard

 

Now you know why I don't use No Name Brand extractors.

You MIGHT be able to anneal the extractor,
by getting it hot enough,and cooling it SLOWLY.
Then drill it out.

Broken taps,and extractors,can be drilled out using a Carbide Drill bit.But since they don't break off nice and flat,the drill bits want to wander,and break.
Spot Facing with a D bit,or a Carbide center drill,will help.

Sink EDM will get it out no problem,if you can find someone with a machine big enough to hold the part.

 

I'm having a bear of a time extracting the header bolt (lower front, driver's side) on my flathead (that's in the car). I have the opposite problem: the damn thing has annealed over time and, instead of being very hard, is so soft that anything harder than a fingernail rounds off the bolt head. (I'll probably make a cry for help in another post...)

The website posted by monaroau should be visited by everybody. The author says that he must TIG the welds, although I don't really see why a gas weld wouldn't work. (In fact, the heat would help more.) MIG welds would probably crack.

Like Bruce, I'd like to hear from a "torch guru". Not only could you cut it out, but you could mess with the temper of the Easy-Out, and make it both softer and more brittle.

--Matt

 

I have successfuly use an oxy-acetylene torch to cut broken 3/8 exhaust studs on diesel engines.I use the smallest cuting torch i have keep the water in the head and let it cool often.I also keep a bucket of water to cool the torch head.If you keep the cast iron cool the torch will do minimum damage to the threads.I try to drill through the bolt first then use the torch to just turn the bolt cherry then a quick blast of oxy, stop cool the torch head and check progress and heat and cut again its a slow prosess. If the bolt goes into the water jacket it would be better as the slag would have some place to go besides blowing back at you. I would not recomend using it close to a cyl wall or valve seat because of the heat

 

If it's a broken bolt inside of cast iron, you can use an oxy-acetylene cutting torch to get it out. It's true that the extractor tools are hardened steel and unable to drilled out, so if you can't get it out with a small punch or scribe, this may be your way to go. I broke an exhaust manifold stud off DEEP into the iron head of my 383 Mopar this past winter and had the same problem with the easy out, Flatdog was nice enough to lend a brother a hand and this is what he did...

Take the cutting torch and without pulling the lever, heat the bolt red hot. Do this by keeping the tip of the torch basically in the hole, then quickly pull the lever and just pop it and back off. Repeat until the bolt is out. The steel of the bolt will burn before the iron of the head, so if you're careful, the threads won't be totally ****ed. Once most of the hole is opened and the easy-out is gone, just drill and tap the hole. good as new. Good luck with it

 

Pist-n-broke, Gilbertson Machine wouldn't happen to be owned by Lonnie Gilbertson would it? If so your description is much to modest. Lonnie Gilbertson was the winner of the "America's Most Beautiful Roadster" trophy at Oakland. He not only did it once but twice with the same car which was extensively redone between showings. Definitly a most talented individual.

Frank

 

Bttt

 

Yes it can be done with a clean torch (to start with it will need cleaning when your done) but it takes some practice. Most people don't know what a clean cutting tip flame looks like. I've done it many times on exhaust manifolds that others have screwed up.

I wouldn't recommend trying it without practicing on less valuable s****.

 

We are talking about the same guy. I'm very fortunate to be able to call him a close and personal friend and has been for 40 years. You think he has had the Hot Rod World standing up before. Wait till you see what he's been up to for the last 2 years.
The Wizzard

 

Go back to the machine shop and ask them to use a carbide end mill. The end mill just needs to be smaller than the minor diameter of the threads. They should be up on this

 

A Torch Guru has stepped forward. From Flat Dog:

First, get bolt red hot. There will be lots of blow back, so be careful. Keep perpendicular to surface. When hotternhell, blast with oxygen. Steel bolt will burn, the iron won't. Repeat. Sometimes you can get whole bolt out, sometimes you will need chipping and hand work to get rid of remnants.
Dictated on phone by Flat Dog.

 

Sorry I read this so late. The cutting torch will work, I learned when working at a John Deere place 35 years ago, this is how they get broken head bolts out of twin cly. tractors. Bruce is correct, heat the stud red hot hit the oxy like your cutting steel the bolt will blow out and the threads in the block will be left in near perfect condition. It works because of the heat transfer properties of cast iron, ever try to heat cast iron red hot takes a lot of heat.