What have I gotten myself into LoL, I bought a Buick V8 and T5 transmission to drop into my Model A. Most any required modifications are ok but cutting the firewall would be a deal breaker. I may have already posted this on here but I’m not certain. Any ***istance would be appreciated.
I have that engine installed in my 1931 Tudor. I did not want to butcher the firewall either but I was prepared to m***age it if it still looked like the original. We removed the firewall and formed the lower section along the crease to be straight down That little aluminum engine just fell in there. When it is all prettied up, no one knows the difference. I am currently finishing my 31 RPU, but it is a banger. Warren
Yes you can. I had a 215 Olds in my avatar car. Was a lot of work, and looked great. After it was installed, and all accessories installed, you couldn't tell. At least that's how it was in my '37. Probably better in a roadster with no hood or side panels.
A former BMW mechanic mate was going to polish block and head of his Mopar slant 6. The service mgr. was an avid R/C airplane modeler, warned against polishing engine metal as the surface roughness aided in cooling! I whispered to the Svc Mgr, "It's WATER COOLED!" ...an audible 'whisper'.
I have a 215 Buick in my Morris Minor woody, it tapes out at 26 1/2" from the back of the valve cover to the front surface of the water pump pulley. The Morris has an electric fan. My '28 Model coupe measures 27 1/2" from the firewall (below the firewall/cowl joint) to the back of the radiator. I have a stock hood on my A. So, it looks like it will basically fit without cutting or bashing the stock firewall anywhere that will show, but it might need t******* around the bellhousing (maybe not) and you may or may not be stuck with an electric fan. I don't know why you don't want to modify the firewall. If the idea is to return it to stock, a.) I seriously doubt that would happen and b). If you save the pieces, they can be welded back in easily.
I just measured a complete 350 Chevy (short water pump). It's 26 3/4" from the rear-most valve cover edge to the front of the water pump pulley. So, if anyone is thinking that the little Buick is smaller than an SBC, truth is they are very close to the same length. They are also almost the same width; 20" +/- 1/4". The major advantage for the 215 is weight. The biggest disadvantage is lack of torque and horsepower.
What about reversing the firewall? I'm not 100% in love with that idea but it works, looks "almost" stock.
I like the car, and really like the final color, but somehow, the 215 looks too small in the final picture. Maybe it's the camera angle?
Said you weren’t sure if you posted this here yet. yup. You have. Here’s the link to your duplicate post https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/buick-215-in-a-model-a.1288514/#post-14811128
my 27 has a aftermarket firewall but the 215 fits and runs well using a standard fan. my 32 year old son used it in his wedding last weekend (his first time to drive it) and said he was really surprised by the smoothness and horsepower, and he has driven some of my ****y stuff.
Bob, I don’t want to modify the firewall because that is beyond my skills and I can’t afford to have somebody do it for me.
Also Bob at more than 3 times the horsepower of a stock Model A motor that’s enough for me. There are many many Model A’s out there with small block Chevy’s in them and I wanted to do something different additionally it has 3X the HP but is more that 100# lighter.
Just trying to give you some useful information and I want to put it where you’ll see it. The numbers indicate that you shouldn’t have to modify the firewall except for maybe taking a crescent shaped slice out of the very bottom for the bellhousing. It doesn’t take any fabrication skills to do that. The 215 bellhousing is a little smaller than many of the full-size engines, so you may not even have to. You’ll know more when you actually set the engine and trans in place.
It looks like you could modify this Speedway motor mount kit to fit the 215. Just cut off the tabs (circled), shorten the main channel as required and have the tabs welded back on rotated 90 degrees. You’ll have to redrill the holes in the tabs to match the holes in the 215 block. Or make something similar depending on your skills and equipment.
While it may have more horsepower, it’s low-end torque that gets the car moving. Those old four bangers were stump pullers. The little Buick will be fine and definitely different. The Buick Specials weighed around 2660 lbs, your A should be that or less. The “get up and go” will be dependent on the rear end ratio and tire diameter.
Your car shouldn't be heavier then 2400 lbs. Rover got up to 400 HP out of that engine. 250 HP would be a great number. I run 3.70 gears with a Super T10, 2.54 first gear. Lots of pull for the street. I run a T5 in three other cars, but never got around to putting one in the A. That is about all the HP you want for a T5. Regardless what performance level you want to build the engine to, talk to Mark at D&D Fabrication ( http://aluminumv8.com ). They are one of the leading experts on this engine in the world. They have built four engines for me. Use the factory mount and it is easy to fab to a Model A frame. The bell housing will not clear the stock firewall, but one lovely thing is the distributor is at the front so none of the SBC ****. Warren
The stock motor mounts are a great idea, that’s what I have on the my Morris. I just thought that the Speedway mounts could be made to work with just a hack saw, a drill and the welded parts could easily be taken to a local welding shop.
Really appreciate the help everybody. I am goin to use a T5, the 2 I have are both from 4 cylinder S10’s so have the lower ratio 1st and 5th gear ratios so I probably will be looking to trade for the higher geared unit. Not so much for 1st gear but I think the higher overdrive gear would be a good idea. I have a friend with a lot of experience doing engine swaps such as this and he has agreed to give me a hand but I don’t want to abuse his time so I want to keep it simple. The front mount dizzy is what sealed the deal for me, I would not have wanted to deal with the rear mount. I called and talked to a gentleman at D&D last week. I couldn’t believe it but he told me that they had never done a 215 in a Model A! He was aware it had been done but had never done it himself. There water pump is about 3/4”shorter than a stock pump so that gains me a little bit but not much. I am expecting to have to use an electric fan and I’m good with that and my friend is experienced with electric relocated water pumps as well should that be needed. I expect to have to relocate one or both of the radiator outlets as well, thankfully there is (very rare these days) great old school radiator shop in my area that can do the job.
@haasfogle, Got any pic of your roadster with people in it? I'm trying to get an idea as to how high the roll bar needs to be. In mine, I'll be sitting 'in it' rather than 'on' it. I drove a '27 years ago and was looking over the windshield. This was built by a very well known fabricator. Swore I wouldn't build one like that.
I have yet to see an installation using an electric fan where a mechanical fan would not fit; with the exception of where the engine sits so low that the fan would only cover a small portion of the radiator. Typically, if you have enough space between the radiator and the water pump/pulley to install an electric puller type fan, you have enough space to fit a mechanical fan as well.
D&D's specialty is installing the aluminum V8s in an MG. Turns them into a rocket. I have two of their engines, both for a model A. Their main focus is building and suppling parts for these rather rare engines. For my model A, they built a high compression carbureted engine and a low compression blown engine. My first encounter with a T5 was installing an early S10 unit in a 62 Cutl***. I couldn't go 10 feet before I had to shift out of first. You would need something like a 2.85 rear gear to handle it and then you would never get into O/D. In the long run, to save yourself time and grief, find a S10 WC with a 2.95 first gear. Then you can run a 3.50 rear and the O/D will be perfect on the hiway. You won't notice much difference between the .73 O/D and the .83 O/D.
the build for my car was started in 1970 (Jag IRS) and that style of seating (think T-Buckets...) was in vogue. also mine has Triumph TR-2 seats for reference.
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