Here's what the original HP balancer looks like. I'd never pay that much but the ad is good for pics http://www.ebay.com/itm/1965-1966-C...-Finned-Harmonic-Balancer-I-6-5-/391318355869
The balancer for the pre 69 engines had the timing mark inline with the keyway and the timing tab was welded to the timing cover. The later ones were offset approx. 8 degrees and used bolt on timing tabs. There were at least 3 different tabs available from GM when I bought the one for my 350. I'm pretty sure the hi-perf. early balancers are still available from GM. #3817173 is the one I have on my 327/350 horse engine, they no longer cast them with the reinforcing fins. They are about half the price of the finned reproduction balancers.
Timing covers do have some variations, some will have a timing tab spot welded on ( or it could be a bolt on as DDD said) for the small diameter lo-perf balancers while the hi-perf tab is higher to clear the larger diameter balancer. When mixing and matching that stuff I recommend verifying TDC and fitting a tab that you know is correct.
This front cover is required when using the 8 inch balancer, they show up on that auction site pretty regularly. When looking at them at swap meets; the tab will be approx. 4&1/8" from the C/L of the cover/crank bore. You no doubt are agreeing with people at this point the value in buying an engine as complete as possible, this gets expensive real fast.
The 462 head was the odds-on favorite prior to the availability of after-market iron and aluminum heads. And for good reason; the 462 was Chevrolet's best idea at the time and very friendly to clever porting. Back in the day, the day being the '70 and early '80s, a set of 462 Stage 3 heads from Airflow Research would nick $1500 from your build budget. And they'd be worth every dollar; I had just such a pair on a modestly cammed 355 SBC in a '72 Nova running in an NHRA heads-up "test" cl*** -- Super X -- in the '80s. My 3500-lb '72 Nova ran high '11s, a full second quicker than the cl*** index. There's no doubt that an un-touched set of the good, current-aftermarket heads would perform better than those m***ively m***aged 462 "fuelie" heads, but not so much better than what you could achieve yourself with a die grinder and some instruction. I'm going to carve a pair of 462 heads along the lines of AFR Stage 3 heads in a few weeks, as part of my recovery/rehab following cancer surgery; my daughters have decreed it; we'll be building a '50s era digger (think Chrisman or Bean Bandits) for Wednesday evenings at Sears Point. I'm looking forward to sharing the details of the project, which includes recreating the tricks of the wonderful AFR head porting. Mike Bishop
The 327 is such a great engine. About the gearing you want, I'll tell you what I run in my Deuce roadster. Engine is crate 350 with 9:4 c.r., 700R4 with 1800-2000 stall speed, 3:73 Ford 8" posi, and 31" tires. At 75 mph, I turn 2100 rpm's and get an honest 22 mpg. Makes those long-distance trips much easier. With the same drivetrain but 29" tires, you can expect to turn 2268 rpm's at 75 mph. With a 3:54 rear gear, you will turn 2153 rpm's. The low first gear of the 700R4 allows you to really leap out of the hole if that is your inclination. Good luck. Gary Addcox
DDDenny, Yes, I wanted to get the most parts as I could, I was looking for a complete motor, but I only paid $100.00 for this one. He had told me he had a bunch of parts he'd give with it, pulley's, tin covers, water pump, balancer, etc, just no heads or intake. He didn't have a pump, pulley's, balancer, or the breather can under the intake. But did have to ****** part still on the block, and just the oil pan, he looked around and found a used chrome timing cover, and no bolts for the pan or cover. I don't need the tin bolts, I have coffee cans full of them. He did have some stock #882 305/350 heads which I didn't want to buy. I did buy his 2x4 intake. He has a set of Brodix aluminum heads, but they are bare. They use a 215? intake valve. I figured by the time I bought everything for them, they would be out of reach for me in cost. Pat
I am at lost when it comes to what gears to get. I'm use to turbo 350 & 400 gears. Back in the 70's I use to race a '67 Chevelle, with a 396 & a 427. I would shift @ 6300 and cross the line @6300 with 488's But that was ............. 40 years ago. I would run 411's on the street in my '67 RS/SS Camaro, which was a 302, and then a 454. All my other cars were factory gearing, on the street. My last street car I built was 10 years ago, and was a '68 El Camino with a built 406 small block, with a turbo 350, with a shift kit. and stock gears. about 6 miles to the gal, and I drove it 14 miles to work, 6 day's a week. So I don't know what to run in this. I hear a bunch saying you don't need a steep gear with a 700r4, because of it's low 1st & 2nd gears. Then I hear that you can use the steeper gears, because of the overdrive, for cruising. I know I want a quick (rpm's) street car when I want it to be, but I also know, I have to cruise 20 mountain miles to town, 38 to a town of size. A 700r4 with a 29" tire. I have 3 different 700r4's , I have '83, '91. and a 93. I'm going to have to find out what the gearing is in each one. So I'm open to suggestion's on gearing. Thanks, Pat
I am going to use a 327 that was rebuilt to resemble a 327 350 HP out of a 67 vette. I took some liberties with the carb, it's a quick fuel 680 cfm but it has the original type finish, and the distributor which is a pertronix. You really can't see either of them once the shielding and air cleaner are in place. The engine was built by Rick Leggett, knows his stuff, with a hyd roller and roller rockers under stock valve covers and some head work. He actually recommended the smaller balancer. Sent from my SPH-L720T using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
Hutch, I don't mean to be critical, but why did he prefer the small balancer? Inquiring minds want to know. Beautiful car and engine, you can be proud!
If I remember correctly the builder said because of of all internal balancing he does the large one is overkill. He also said, because of some testing he's done, he also doesn't recommend any fluid dampers. He said they were mainly developed for constant rpm engines such as diesel generators, that surprised me. Rick is very knowledgeable and does testing for Ford at times. He has built both Chevy and Ford engines for friends of mine street cars and they run killer. His main body of work are race engines though. Don't want to start a big debate about balancers, I'm sure there are many opinions on the subject. Sent from my SPH-L720T using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
On the subject of balancers --> Most 327s had their balancers pressed-on. Check yours to see if this is the case. Have your machine shop drill and tap the crank snout so you can bolt-on the balancer. I had a balance come lose.
I will have my crank taped. Are you saying that a 327, 305, 307, 350 balancer is correct, and will fit on my 327?
For what you want your engine to do yes, I think any balancer will suffice. Would it be nice to have the big hi-perf 8" balancer? Yes, if looks are important for your build. Probably only really necessary for high RPM, or 500 mile oval track use but if you find one for the right price, why not? The large 350 balancer ( not hi-perf) should be pretty easy to find and works for sure but so will any of the 6 3/4 " balancers. On used ones check to see if the outer ring has slipped. Pre '68 ( IIRC) the timing mark will be inline with the keyway, and the later ones will be about 8-9* off the k/w. Like I said before, when mixing and matching establish an accurate TDC mark.
Reread fordors posts, you will save yourself a lot of grief (and money) if you stick to components from one generation of engines. If you plan on using the previously mentioned 1966 327 engine; I'd recommend using a balancer and matching timing cover from a 62-67 327 engine.
Unless you're building a drag car, this will work well. On an open car, a 6-3/4 balancer looks better.
I'm was going to get a 6 3/4" balancer. I just didn't realize that they were interchangeable from the pre '68, to the post '68 motors. I just never tried, or checked. Thanks, Pat
Sure, they will physically interchange but the timing numbers don't. Look over this old discussion, especially post #35. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/327-chevy-timing.873771/
Hutch, I was just wondering why you went with the canister oil filter, over a spin on? I was going to use the canister, but none of the canister parts are with my motor. I don't know which will be easier to get, the insert for spin on, or a canister. I did find a auto yard that has a bunch of older cars, and trucks in it. I'm going to have to make a trip (55 miles away) there when it warms up, to walk it, and see what he does all have. Pat
I have been reading what you guys are saying, and I am going to remember about the timing cover marks, to which cover I use. The chrome one I got with has no tag on it. I don't know if I'm going to use it, or just buy the pointer for it. I don't like to have to keep chrome clean, and I do like chevy orange paint. Pat
Is there any difference in oem small journal 327 rods, or are they all the same? Is there any difference in the 283 to 327, or are the earlier 283 different. It's been to many years since I've dealt with this stuff! I thought I'd remember all this stuff till I died! Or did I.... No I felt pain today. I'm still alive. Thanks, Pat
The 265, 283, and "early" (can't tell you the exact time they changed them) 327 rods were quite a bit lighter/weaker than the 2nd design 327 rods; all are small journal, but the 2nd design 327 rod has more support around the rod bolts and shoulder area around the crankshaft journal area. Easiest way is to look at what's for sale on E-Bay for "comparison purposes"; pay attention to where the rods "ride" against each other. The early small journal rods are completely "round" where they "ride" against each other, the later design has areas of increased thickness, and is not completely "round". The 2nd design 327 rod was a common upgrade with the small journal engines at rebuild/build up time. BUT....., it was also a racers trick to use the earlier, lighter, small journal rods for less rotating weight, so they'd rev faster. Parting lines on rods were also ground/polished away to lighten them and remove stress risers. It's also common knowledge to pick rods that have the smallest balancing pads; the theory being there's more metal where it counts for rod strength. For what it costs to rebuild stock rods, update the rod bolts, polish and weight match them, it's usually cheaper to just buy aftermarket rods; you're also not using old rods with billions of cycles on them. There are thicker bearings available to put large journal rods onto small journal cranks (I'm old school and still use the small and large journal terms; the 400 is just an "aberation of the small block Chevrolet", IMO). I am Butch/56sedandelivery.
I used the canister oil filter because I was going for the look of that I took the engine out of a 67 Vette and put it in my hotrod. I went as far as ordering all the right bolt and various small pieces out of a Corvette restorers catalog. I think it would have been cheaper to go all chrome LOL. Just buying the right intake wasn't easy or cheap. Sent from my SPH-L720T using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
I have ordered a couple of books. But until they get here, what are your thoughts about running a pair of Holley 6619-1's on the tunnel. I have one that's like new, and I know where I can get a second one. Pat
Chevy used forged rods. All the forged rods they used were produced in either Detroit or Tonawanda Forge and machined and ***embled in Flint. At least for the SBC produced in the time frame. Once they converted to the late style, all motors were produced with that style. They did not want to sort them out, in as much as the 'lazy' would not catch the difference and they were interchangeable.
Sorry I may have oversteped my bounds, I was just trying to point out that chevy was too cheap to make two different forgings, as forgings were more expensive than the cast rods others were using in the day. Cast iron patterns were much cheaper and easier than forging dies. Chevy was know for error proofing parts back in the day because it was cheaper. Did not mean to offend anyone, I'll let the experts answer from now on, lesson learned!
Not bragging (ok, maybe a little), want to see my rod Wish I had taken pictures before ***embling the 327/350 horse engine for my 67 Nova. Many years ago I bought a bunch of NOS GM stuff for my Nova engine but two items that I considered "Holy Grail" components were the forged small journal crank and rods. Factory tuftrided crank, new in GM box and also a full set of brand new forged rods, never ***embled in an engine. The seller was a Chevy parts counter man that owned an original 67 Malibu station wagon, L79 (327) 4 speed and he had been collecting this stuff for many years, I'm still curious what his plans were for these parts.
Pat the 6619-1 is a early 70's emission carb, at least that is what my research says. I would suppose if that is what you have they can be made to work, but there are quite a few better choice's out there for your 2x4 setup.
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