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Projects Building My First Roadster in San Francisco

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by J.Ukrop, Sep 7, 2020.

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  1. Dedsoto
    Joined: Jan 7, 2014
    Posts: 349

    Dedsoto
    Member
    from Australia
    1. Aussie HAMBers

    Joey, I run a Mr. Gasket 42S fuel pump on the inside of the firewall between the fuel shut off and sediment bulb. It's rated at 2-3.5psi but I think that's wishful thinking as it runs fine on the Holley 94 with out a regulator. I'll flick you a pic of the setup through next time I walk past the car.
     
  2. 97
    Joined: May 18, 2005
    Posts: 1,983

    97
    Member

    Fuel pressure regulators should be as close to the carburetor as possible, I like to replace the original fuel filter /water separator with a Malpassi Filter King, they do not look out of place and work well on a Model A .
    Vintage hot rods deserve a vintage Autopulse pump, and a very vintage looking Malpassi regulator.
    I have had issues with the Holley regulator keeping constant pressure, they are all over the place when you are down to 2.5 lbs for 97s, however 94s are not so sensitive as 97s and can run OK at 3 or even 4 pounds.
    https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/autopulse-fuel-pumps.793438/
    Do you read the Monthly Banger threads? Lots of great stuff there. Here is one where we discussed carburetors and filters etc.
    https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum...anger-thread-hot-august-nights.1159461/page-2

    https://www.carburettorshop.com/con...ssi_Fuel_Filters_and_Pressure_Regulators.html
     
  3. J.Ukrop
    Joined: Nov 10, 2008
    Posts: 3,279

    J.Ukrop
    SUPER MODERATOR
    Staff Member

    Great advice, everyone. I'll be tackling the fuel system in the first part of the new year. @Dedsoto sent me some shots of his setup on Instagram, and I've been studying them. @97, I'll give the Holley a shot and see how it does. After a lot of research, I ended up buying this pump from Vintage Speed last week. Again, I'm sure it will be a lot of trial and error to figure out the right setup.
     
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  4. sloppy jalopies
    Joined: Jun 29, 2015
    Posts: 5,256

    sloppy jalopies
    Member

    if i ever buy another one, i will buy the one with the pressure gauge attached... like $10 more... errrrr!
     
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  5. J.Ukrop
    Joined: Nov 10, 2008
    Posts: 3,279

    J.Ukrop
    SUPER MODERATOR
    Staff Member

    Yesterday was a very roadster-oriented day. After breakfast, my roommate and I drove north to Petaluma to pick up my revamped front brake drums. Jeff at Moose Motors is a master of his craft. He measured the drums and, once he determined that they would be usable, sandblasted them, installed reinforcement bands, turned them and installed new Timken bearing races. He then arced the shoes. I'm very impressed with the work. We're slated to get a new garage door at the house in January. Once that's finished, I'm going to finally get them on the car.

    IMG_2043.jpg The old chrome relay and unbelievably cool Model A roadster belt buckle were gifts from my friend David. In short, yesterday was like Christmas morning for me!
    IMG_2044.jpg
     
  6. Concerning the YOM plates....when I wanted a later plate on a car I would get personalized plates that match the number on an old set of plates and run the old plates.
     
  7. Six Ball
    Joined: Oct 8, 2007
    Posts: 6,499

    Six Ball
    Member
    from Nevada

    Great Idea! Nevada has so many different plates a cop would never know. If you carried the personalized plates with you I doubt you'd ever run into a cop dick headed enough to cause problems unless you'd been dickly enough to deserve it.
     
  8. J.Ukrop
    Joined: Nov 10, 2008
    Posts: 3,279

    J.Ukrop
    SUPER MODERATOR
    Staff Member

    Projects like this always have their highs and lows. After coming back from Petaluma, I decided to take the roadster out for its first trip to the gas station and the grocery store. It's all local stuff within a couple mile radius. Well, after successfully making it up the hill and most of the way to the gas station, the car cut out while I was trying to double-clutch. Weird. It seemed like a fuel issue. I popped open the hood and started inspecting.

    As I did this, a nice older guy asked how it was going and began telling me about his brother's '29 Model A pickup. After the pickup, he had a '40 Ford coupe that he gave to him. I asked if he still had it, and he laughed. "No way! It didn't even have an engine or transmission!"

    Back under the hood: nothing seemed too out of place. After tightening the top of the fuel line where I saw a small drip, I hopped back in and started the car up again. It was idling erratically and I had to use the hand throttle to keep the rpm's up. This has never happened before. I eventually made it to the gas station.
    IMG_2046.jpg
    The younger couple with the Subaru in front of me was intrigued.

    "What is that thing?" They asked.
    "It's an old hot rod!" I said.
    "How fast does it go?"
    "200, 250mph maybe."
    "Really?!"
    "Nahh."
    We laughed.

    Once it was fueled up, I drove towards the grocery store. I made it like two blocks before it cut out again. I pulled off to the side of the road. It wasn't long before a gentleman probably thrice my age helped me parallel park it via pushing. He got a kick out of seeing the car, and even asked if he could take a picture. "Of course," I said.

    This starting, driving, stalling pattern continued throughout the afternoon until I pulled into my driveway. Younger me would have been pretty upset about the whole thing. I worked hard to keep a positive attitude. It was the first time I've really had the car out, and I had the opportunity to talk to something like a dozen people. Was I disappointed that my car wasn't running well? You bet. But was I happy to be out there on a nice December afternoon in an old hot rod? Hell yeah. IMG_2048.jpg
    Hey! I can see my old house from here!
    IMG_2052.jpg
    Neat view of downtown SF through the windshield frame.
    IMG_2055.jpg
    Final breakdown was one street over from mine. A scenic San Francisco place to stall, that's for sure.

    So what was wrong? Thanks to a quick phone call with David, we concluded that it very well may have been an intake leak combined with an exhaust leak. Lo and behold, all four of the nuts holding on the manifolds were loose-ish—and the exhaust clamp was too. (I hadn't touched them since bolting the engine together over the summer). I tightened them, did some late-night test runs and everything seems to be going better. I was going to take it out today, but it's rainy here in SF. Maybe tomorrow? One day at a time!
     
  9. redzula
    Joined: Jul 6, 2011
    Posts: 1,270

    redzula
    Member

    Tried that once when you still had to fill out a form in person for custom plates. Lady behind the desk looked at me like I was a martian.

    But that a lot of that is online (it was back in IA and is here in TX) that would be a great solution.


    I always just ran the vintage plates and made sure to keep my registered plates in the car. I've never been stopped for it. Never even been asked about it by anyone other than people at cruise ins or shows.

    I really like the idea of plates that match the build if the car rather than the year if the car.

    Lastly this roadster is so freaking cool I can't stand it.
    -Adam

    Sent from my rotary phone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  10. J.Ukrop
    Joined: Nov 10, 2008
    Posts: 3,279

    J.Ukrop
    SUPER MODERATOR
    Staff Member

    Thanks, @redzula! I like the idea about the plates too. That being said, I think I am going to run 1930 Cal plates if I get the opportunity. Anything beats the modern ones!
     
  11. J.Ukrop
    Joined: Nov 10, 2008
    Posts: 3,279

    J.Ukrop
    SUPER MODERATOR
    Staff Member

    Okay, so no driving today. I was however able to get the contact points on the light switch all cleaned up. After plugging everything back in, I ran into the same problem. Low beam generated some heat and high beams made the power inlet hot. Still no blown fuses.
    IMG_2059.jpg
    Next, I tried out my new-old relay. I had to play around with it a little bit to get the lights going, but it seemed to work. Both gates opened and closed as they should, and no fuses were blown. But within a minute of having the lights on, I discovered that the low beams got the relay warm and the high beams got it hot—just as hot as the switch. (Yet with the relay, the switch remained cold.) It's as if it just moved the problem somewhere else.

    The relay has labels for everything. Two connectors are labeled lights, two are labeled switch, and there's a single prong for battery. The whole operation is grounded. Here's a diagram of how I wired it up. IMG_2067.jpg
    With this configuration, the tab on the right of the relay (labeled battery) got hot, as did the relay. Also, there's a 30A fuse between the battery and the key switch that I forgot to draw.

    It seems strange to me that this relay would need multiple power sources. That just doesn't seem right. When I tried not using the battery tab on the relay, the gates would open and close but the lights would not come on. When I tried connecting the battery to the switch but not the relay, nothing happened.

    As you guys know, I'm new to all this. I have three questions.

    1) Do these old-style relays usually get hot during normal use?
    2) I don't really want to, but should I just bite the bullet and get new-style relays?
    3) Seeing that this is a vintage piece, what is the easiest way to tell if it's a 6 or 12V? It has no markings that would tell me either way. It does look exactly like the one in this diagram that I found after I drew my sketch. Maybe I should try a 10 gauge power wire.
    70279ee40a7c29b9fe532d155cc48c.jpg
    Seeing that much of the problem revolves around the high-beam circuit, I'm wondering if there's potentially a short somewhere in the headlight bucket? The lights are bright, so that doesn't seem like the case. I will investigate that tomorrow. Any input would be greatly appreciated.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2020
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  12. 97
    Joined: May 18, 2005
    Posts: 1,983

    97
    Member

    The power (Battery) terminal should be wired directly to the battery with a fuse/fusible link or a cutout. In my opinion it should be 8 gauge wire or bigger. It shouldn't be wired through the ignition switch or even to the hot wire as you have it.... that way all the current is going through the single wire. The relay is actually redundant.
    The whole idea of the relay is that it powers the lights without any (very little ) voltage drop.

    Have you missed a step in the circuit, ( dip switch) ? The switch you have is normally used as a park lights and headlights switch. So that the first step lights the park lights and tail lights and full out is for the headlights. The headlight wire would then go to the dip switch, and from there to either of the relay activating terminals. The dipswitch will handle much more current than the panel switch you are using.
    I think what may be happening is that you are powering both high and low beam at the same time when you have the switch full out, thereby drawing double the current!

    Also have you run earth /ground wires back from the terminals on the lamps themselves all the way to the chassis or are you relying on the ground running through the buckets,headlight bar etc? I always run a separate ground right back to a known good ground on the chassis as near as possible to the battery/frame/engine
    ground point.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2020
  13. sloppy jalopies
    Joined: Jun 29, 2015
    Posts: 5,256

    sloppy jalopies
    Member

    Using matching # plates works here in ME.
    but you must have "both" the modern plates with reg. stickers in the car...
    i think they fear that you and a buddy 5 towns away were using the same plates...
    compared to the others like the Aussies we have it made in the shade..
     
  14. treb11
    Joined: Jan 21, 2006
    Posts: 4,065

    treb11
    Member

    Good use of your vintage Boy Scout pocket knife


     
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  15. denis4x4
    Joined: Apr 23, 2005
    Posts: 4,311

    denis4x4
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Colorado

    810BD9D3-D26D-4D8B-ADE1-97ECCC57356F.jpeg

    The Zipper is registered as a 1999 home built in CO. Ordered personalized plates that match the '27 plate number. I put the annual sticker on the '27 plate. Even though the colors aren't even close to being correct, I've never had any problems. In fact, I got a parking ticket!
     
  16. winduptoy
    Joined: Feb 19, 2013
    Posts: 3,651

    winduptoy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    So if you look at the original diagram for the relay, it has depicted a foot operated, Hi/Lo beam switch...
    remember when they weren't on the turn signal switch? It breaks one circuit and makes the other.
    Does your headlight switch do that?
    I'm wondering if both filaments are powered on hi beam (maybe low beam too) and that is why your switch is getting hot.
    Maybe substituting the relay in the circuit is powering the two coils (I'm guessing that is the way the relay is configured) and you substituted the current draw of the headlamps for the draw of the relay coils if both powered at the same time?
    Long distance troubleshooting is difficult.
    As for a short....a short to ground makes smoke and or sparks....tremendous, immediate voltage loss and high amperage....fuse blowing wire melting stuff.
    You are describing heat from current draw for more than the switch can handle
    Unhook the wires for the high beam and operate low beams check outcome
    Then do the same for the high beams powered with the low beam wires unhooked....evaluate

    Good luck
     
  17. Six Ball
    Joined: Oct 8, 2007
    Posts: 6,499

    Six Ball
    Member
    from Nevada

    For sure check the ground for the lights. A really bad ground is like turning off the switch. Poor grounds can have huge resistance which is how electric heaters work.
     
  18. 97
    Joined: May 18, 2005
    Posts: 1,983

    97
    Member

    Mmmm, I think that's what I suggested yesterday.;)o_O

    Dip switch = hi /lo beam switch, as far as I am concerned they are all foot operated, you must drive some sort of a modern spacecraft, and you say if it is combined with the other switch ? , which I have no knowledge of! :D:eek:
     
  19. wheeldog57
    Joined: Dec 6, 2013
    Posts: 3,622

    wheeldog57
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I have a few pictures of my roadster on the side of the road. It does suck but just remember what you started with not too long ago.
     
  20. Six Ball
    Joined: Oct 8, 2007
    Posts: 6,499

    Six Ball
    Member
    from Nevada

    Many great hot rod stories start on the side of the road. Be grateful that you began many stories so close to home. :D
     
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  21. J.Ukrop
    Joined: Nov 10, 2008
    Posts: 3,279

    J.Ukrop
    SUPER MODERATOR
    Staff Member

    Right on. I think you guys hit the nail on the head. That would explain the heat. Thank you so much. I'm going to be out of town for a little bit, but I'm going to order a dimmer switch and put it into play when I can get back in the garage.

    The lights are grounded directly to the frame with 12 gauge wire. I brought the area down to baremetal before bolting on the ground.

    Glad somebody noticed that! This one belonged to my late grandfather. I'm not sure of the story behind it, but I'm happy to have it in my collection.
     
  22. J.Ukrop
    Joined: Nov 10, 2008
    Posts: 3,279

    J.Ukrop
    SUPER MODERATOR
    Staff Member

    Right? I know that I've had to fix every vintage bike I've ever owned on the side of the road. The fact that I've even been able to roll this roadster out of the garage at this point makes me happy!

    Very well said. Never a dull moment with these things!
     
  23. Six Ball
    Joined: Oct 8, 2007
    Posts: 6,499

    Six Ball
    Member
    from Nevada

    I broke the tip on my Lone Ranger pocket knife prying a burnt fuse out of an over drive relay. Probably not as good as the boy Scout knife.:rolleyes:
     
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  24. My YOM plate are kinda close to original colors. Best part about them is in Nebraska you only have to register the plates to your car one time. They're good forever with no annual fees to pay.....ever! I don't buy them unless I can get both plates so no worries about some stroker having the same plate # as me.
    I keep my registered plate with the big ugly registration sticker on it in a pocket on the back of the seat. Been driving the car 3 years without ever being stopped. In fact, I know a few of our local cops and they always wave. 34licenseplate.jpg
     
  25. J.Ukrop
    Joined: Nov 10, 2008
    Posts: 3,279

    J.Ukrop
    SUPER MODERATOR
    Staff Member

    Hey all, I'm away from the car for the holidays. Before I left, I managed to clean up the headlight wiring a little bit and add some old cable wrap. It still needs some dirt to look right, but I love little touches like this. (Oh, and the dimmer switch will be installed at the end of the month to help the circuit.) IMG_2103.jpg
    IMG_1173.jpg
    (Inspiration)
     
  26. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 24,023

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I just finished rebuilding my blast cabinet.

    By the time you return, I will have the front backing plates all cleaned up.

    If you don't already have tears from Pocket Nick, I will roll down and grab those.
     
  27. Six Ball
    Joined: Oct 8, 2007
    Posts: 6,499

    Six Ball
    Member
    from Nevada

    Do they still run the electric busses that use those overhead cables? When I was a kid SF had more kinds of public transportation than ant city I was ever in.
    Somewhere in my piles I have some of the old cloth wire loom material. I got it when I worked at CarQuest.
     
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  28. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 24,023

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Yup, just newer models.

    We still have most of those kinds of transportation.
     
  29. Six Ball
    Joined: Oct 8, 2007
    Posts: 6,499

    Six Ball
    Member
    from Nevada

    It was magical place for a kid from the Texas Panhandle where we didn't even have french bread or dry salami. :D
     
    barrnone50 and Budget36 like this.
  30. How did you ever survive without these staples?
     

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