Burning point(s)

Hello,
I have a 64 Falcon, with ignition/carb problems. The car will be running fine and out of the blue, I feel a miss, and my car shuts down. I've rebuilt the carb twice, replaced everything electrical, including changing the points out to a Ignitor electornic ignition. The car turns right on, every single time ive changed the points out and feel like the problem is the wiring.
I would like to run a new wire from the solinoid, to the coil, to the ignition switch. My questions are:
Do i have to connect a ballast resistor between ignition switch and Coil now that I'm using the Ignitor?

to anyone who knows 60's fords: Im going to use the Pink wire off the ignition switch, the Wire connected to the (I) on the solinoid, and the wire off the (+) of the coil. Does that sound right?

Thanks for the Help,

 

You need the ballst resistor, not sure if Ford used resistor wire yet in 1960. If the points are burning up that indicates they have the full 12V on them all the time and it should be between 6 - 8V in the run position.

Check the voltage at the + terminal of the coil with the key turned on and the points closed.

 

It depends on the coil you are running whether or not you need a ballast resistor, And are you using the original Ignitor or Ignitor II?
Don from PerTronix

 

That Pink wire Should be a resistor wire. Check the voltage at the coil +.

 

You need to make sure the coil has the correct resistance for the electronic ignition module you are using. If the resistance is too low the coil or ignition module can over heat from too much current.

What do the instructions that came with the ignitor say?

With the key on and engine not running I would check the voltage across the coil terminals when the car is running good and again when it shuts down. This will give some valuable info for troubleshooting the problem.

 

Thanks for the feed back. Just so Im clear, with the ignition on the ON position, take a voltmeter to the (+) of the coil, and it should read 6-8 right?
My fear is that the resistor wire is old and is working off and on. thats why I would rather run new wiring.
Thanks for the help

 

Have you ever thought of diagnosing the problem and fixing what is wrong?

 

I hate wireing. I've owned this car for 15 years, I have either rebuilt or replaced every part of this car, except for the wiring. I have an air bag set up in this car and one of the air bag compressors overheated and its power wire melted, and with it, it caused many grounding issue with the original wiring of the car. I fixed or replaced all the issues except for this one, which I can't find. In my opinion, I'm tired of "diagnosing" and looking for the grimlin. I would rather start fresh.
Rusty, Do you have any other suggestions on how else to diagnose,I'm all ears

 

For a start you say replacing the points fixes the problem then you say you put on an Ignitor ignition. Did that fix the problem? Did the problem go away then come back? Were the old points badly burnt up? Did the Ignitor burn up?

I'm getting a couple of ideas here. One is there is something wrong that is burning up points. The other is that letting the car cool down fixed it and the points were a red herring.

 

If you are running points and are burning them it may be the capacitor is bad.

 

That was my first thought. Then he said he put on the Ignitor ignition and it did the same thing. Or, it didn't do the same thing. The first post is not exactly clear.

Depends if the Ignitor fixed it.

 

I would love to see a picture of the point contacts....

This is an intermittent problem if I am reading it right, correct?

It could even be a shorting out wire by the dist cap....


The original posts also states carb.... That's why I would like to see the points... What if someone shoved a bag in your gas tank and it gets ****ed up by the pickup, then the engine coughs, then dies, the bag floats away because of no suction until its running again.... and so on and so on

 

I believe that both resitor wires and firewall mounted ballast resistors allow a full 12 volts to flow to the coil when the engine is first started. Then after a predetermined amount of time, which allows the engine to warm up and not require such a "hot" spark for ignition, the resistance wire or ballast heats up and drops the voltage to about 8 volts, thus giving longer point life. So---If you are going to check with a voltmeter, do it once immediately after you have turned on the key,when the engine is cold and once again about 10 minutes later. You should get two different readings. I have found that the biggest contributor to burned points in the old points style ignition is a bad condensor.-----Brian

 

Cars with ballast resistors are wired so the coil gets a full 12 volt jolt off the solenoid for starting, when the starter stops turning they get a reduced voltage from the resistor.

 

Thanks Rusty---I had forgotten that. Its been a long time since I messed with points style ignitions.---Now I'm second guessing my answer.--Brian

 

thanks for the info, and I'm sorry for not being clear. I originally thought it was a carb issue, I've had it taken apart twice professionally and found nothing wrong with it. Once I got it back installed, The car still did not turn on.
My next step was to replace the points and condensor, and the car fired right up. Ran fine for about 100miles, then out of the blue, I felt a miss, and it turned off.
I had it towed home. This time I installed the ignitor, it fired right up, but I turned it off because of fear of burning up the $65 ignitor system. so for a recap, the car has now stalled out on me twice, and the only way of turning it back on, was by replaceing the points. The car is sitting in my gargae with the ignitor system until I can figure this out.
The car will turn on but I fear an intermittent problem with the ballast Resistor.
Now, on my 51 chevy (235 with new wiring harness), I installed a ignitor system, and byp***ed the ballast resistor and installed the ignition wire stright to the (+) on the coil.
Can I do the same with my Ford?
Thanks again

 

The ignitor that I have calls for a full 12 Volts all the time, meaning that the resistor wire is NOT used. In my car, I ran a separate wire from the starter switch to the coil, because to disable the resistor wire I'd have to unwrap the entire harness.

In a Ford system, the pink resistor wire is spliced in with another wire that comes from the starter solenoid. You'll see that Ford solenoids have two small terminals-- one is from the starter switch and the other goes to the coil (pink) wire in the harness. The system is designed to byp*** the resistor wire while the engine is cranking to give a hotter (12V) spark while starting the engine.

I think your problem may be that you are running the ignitor on the pink wire with less than 12 volts.

 

Here's how to correctly wire the ignitor. It needs a full 12v to operate correctly, or you will get a miss at high rpms. Connect an un-resisted 12v wire from an ignition source to the ignitor. The coil still needs to be connected to the resisted wire or it will burn up. It may not burn up today, tomorrow, or 6 months down the road, but it will burn up and leave you stranded eventually. Your coil wiring sounds correct. You want a full 12v souce byp***ing the restisted wire to the coil when starting, this wire comes from the "s" post on the starter solenoid. To see if your resitor wire is working you can put a volt meter on it. They usually run between 8-9 volts once warmed up. A cold engine will read 12v as resistors have to warm up to work... that's my experience anyway.

 

You posted while I was writing... I agree with all the above.

 

OK, once again, the stock pink wire in that car should be a resistor wire. There should not have been a ballast resistor in the car stock.
You didn't answer my question about which Ignitor you have, but since you paid only $65.00 I am pretty sure it is the original Ignitor. This system will work fine with the stock Ford Coil and the Resistor Wire in place. It will run better with a full 12v, but as long as the resistor wire isn't creating too much resistance (which they can do as they age and crack and corrode) it will run fine. If you decide to replace the coil, we recommend a 1.5Ω coil. Just hook the red wire to the coil + and the black wire to coil - and go drive it! Do not hook these up backwards.
DO NOT leave the power on without the car running for more than a minute or two with the Ignitor or you COULD burn it up.

So to summarize, a full 12v is Better, but as long as you are getting at least 8v out of the resistor wire while running it will work fine.

 

If I understand OP's post 16 it has run only briefly, by his choice, with the ignitor electronic ignition installed. So, the "problem" of repeated points "failing" >>may<< be solved.

 

So is this right?????? Man I hope so.

 

Your right, I have a pink Resistor wire in place, My fear is if that wire is corroded or cracked, i would like to install a new wire from the ignition switch to the coil. Do I need to put a ballast Resistor in between.

 

It's solved, but what if the resistor wire is bad and starts to shove 12V to the (+) side of the coil. Will it burn out the coil or the ignitor?