I'm planning a chassis for my roadster that I would like to use "bus" type steering as was popular in the early 1960's. I believe some of these used Dodge van boxes, (?) and many other configurations. I'd like to keep mine as close to the era as possible and was hoping I could get some insight and maybe pics of how this was typically done. I've done a search and I'm probably the only guy out there who wants to reincarnate this style becuause there doesn't seem to be much. Post away my friends.....
I plan to do a near vertical steering column in one of my up-coming projects, but I wouldn't talk about it on the HAMB, my guess is, it will not go well. Period-correct T-bucket?
We usually call it vertical steering. You might get better results searching that. It was popular on '50s to early '60s T buckets and T track race cars. It gives you more foot room in the small T body. What kind of roadster are you building?
George since when did we shy away from controversy on the HAMB. We know the "Fad T" crowd doesn't like Vertical steering but then we don't much like them either. I laugh when I see builders going through so much trying to fit everything in the floor of a T trying to avoid vertical steering. Swing pedals, ugly steering boxes showing under headers, mutable U joints. Koz is the below what you talking about?
Heres another period t-bucket Near as I can figure, this car has a ford cross-steer box laid on its side pitman arm up, and the drag link through the body.
In 1959 when trying to piece together my rod,my steering at the time was cut shorter 31A box mounted vertical for room,pic#1 was about 1960 when redo on my Y-block was needed. After a time I changed to a cut down F1 worked smoother ,however over the years F1 want bad an a few years ago I put a Vaga box in at more of an angle. I liked feel of the vertical OK,but now is even better. THis old hotrods been doing its thing a longtime.
Norm Grabowski proudly dictated to the eds in Hot Rod Magazine that the steering in the 'Lightnin' Bug was from a milk truck...laughable...(actually an old Ross steering box from numerical possible applications) Near vertical steering (as in Gary's 'Steel Rebel') is a realistic way of avoiding many pitfalls in a narrow-cowled T. My '27 tub is getting a more vertical-than-original angle on the steering because of 1. 3 pedals 2. My big size 13 shoes (even Sperry Topsiders and Penny loafers are tight in there) 3. My '56 Desoto hemi, which will replace the flathead. 4. If angle doesn't get any less than 12 degrees, it looks 'T'-ish. Nothing looks worse than a 45 degree steering, with a too-high wheel! Er- unless it's a fat tilting steering column waving up there like the current Ts being manufactured somewhere...
Right on, George! Tom told me it was a '40 Ford, with the pitman arm 'up'. He had a different one at first, so he wouldn't have to 'trim' the body. But the '40 won out, over the box being set high in the frame, and protruding box thru floorboard. Gary: LOVE your new shift knob! Cool 'sighting'...
Had the box out of an early VW bus in mine in the early 70's when that was one of the hot lick deals but wouldn't do it again.
The '64-'69 Dodge A100 vans had a good side steer box, it was actually a side steer version of the venerable GM Saginaw box. The '60s Chevy/GMC vans also had a side steer Saginaw box. The "milk truck" box referred to earlier may have been from one of the small Divco trucks--didn't they use a Ross box?
A New Zealander told me the way they used to do it was a Morris Minor rack and pinion lengthwise under the floor, because that had no universal joint at the bottom of the steering column. Then run a drag link from what had been the passenger-side end.
A lot of the pics above are exactly what I'm talking about. My car is a steel body 1918 touring cut to a bucket. The cowl is slightly modified to give a bit more foot room but it's hard to tell. I have the chassis near done, press braked of 10 ga. P&O to correct model A specs. The frame has the typical "A" holes punched in the visible part and will be hard to tell it isn't just a mint "A" frame modified as was typical 1960 fashion. The rear uses a flattend and narrowed '37 crossmember and the front uses a suicide bulldog riveted into the rails as would have been done in an earlier car that was updated over the years. ( As was bolted in on the Lightning Bug). All parts that are visible on the chassis are riveted and discretely safety tigged/migged so as not to show. I have a '57, side mount delete engine with all the usual early sixties hop up stuff including an era correct 3x2 Rochester setup. Another HAMB find is the 1959 Merc Marine steel dual point and '57 Vette canister filter. All this is topped with a generator and '36 torque tube headers that will be chromed. A very early steel Powerglide ring and what I think is an Ansen, (?), adapter put a fresh '39 style box with Lincoln gears in back of it. This all hooks to a '40 Ford banjo with my favorite 3.78 gears and some NOS safety rings that are fitted to the '46-'48 brakes. I have some '46-'48 Merc. rims, two of which I threw 6" hoops on. This is where I'm at so far. The car has been mocked up and "sits" just right. I used to have a pic of some LA Roadster cars in front of some speed shop back in the day and they just screamed SoCal in maybe 1960. If I can build that California summer night look into this I'm happy. I think most of this stuff is pretty HAMB friendly and typical of a lot of cars on the streets at that time. This was a time frame I remember a young tyke and cars like this were just a daydream when I was supposed to be concentrating on Algebra or something. Throw on a little Beach Boys or Jan and Dean and we're talking! In reality a 'glass body would probably be more appropriate but there were a lot of steel cars still on the streets at that time. I really rather have a deuce coupe, (who wouldn't), but this one I can afford to keep and develop as time goes on. This is where I'm at so far and I'm open to suggestions as to other era appropriate stuff I missed.
In my book the only "correct" steering location for a T Bucket is vertical !!! Mine was built in the 60's with a Ross box first, the swapped for a reversed Corvair later. Only way to go !!!
Sounds like a cool project! I have a '57 283 here, but its for a different project. I need a '57 Corvette canister bad, I have everything else to copy a 270hp corvette motor, that's the only piece I'm missing. I had a pic of Dennis DeBenidictus T-bucket on my bedroom wall when I was like 8 or 9, daydreamed about bright orange t buckets with white headers and drilled and dropped Model A axles with americans and drilled bones all through elementary school.
My motor pretty much ready to set in. Not the right valve covers. The right ones are at the polish shop. Doing the trip carbs in my spare time. It's actually more bronze than this pic shows.
Mike, remember Norm discovered his Roadster steered backwards, when he went for his first ride to Valley Custom !
When we say vertical we mean near vertical. I think I can speak for most that full vertical is UGLY! Now this is where George and I disagree and sometime we will get together and "duke it out". I think the windshield should lean back at pretty much the same angle as the steering column. George likes a vertical or near vertical windshield and George likes the back down a little more than mine. George will this be bare knuckle or gloves? Kos I think your T body must be the same as mine, Norm's and Tom's. Although Ivo calls his a '25 (and he once threatened to put something ticking on my porch if I didn't stop calling it a 22 or earlier) in the different photos it looks different to me. I'm just not sure. Please post some photos of your project. and tune into the first 24 or 25 pages of Chip's deuglifing T Bucket thread. Shit his HAMBdle eludes me at the moment. Gary
I have been using VW Bus boxes for over 45 years, simple to mount, quick steering and work very well. The solution to the turning radius problem, is build a slightly longer pitman arm.
My body looks very close to yours Steel Rebel. My rear of my car is just a bit lower than yours, about halfway between your car and Aaron Carsons roadster. I have a good bit of experience in machining suspension components. Making a pitman arm is no problem at all. I have it blown apart at the moment but will post as soon as I have it back on the table.
Well Gary, you may have missed the context of my comment about not tipping the windshield back, It was in the context of trying to get the look from that mid sixties time frame. It depends on the car, but I am chasing that circa 1964-66 look, and I feel the vertical windshield is an important part of that recipe. And as I said on Chips @need louvers ? thread, I figure IF you are doing the vertical windshield, the stance should be pretty close to flat. The two things compliment each other. If the car is going to have much rake, then tipping the windshield back a little starts to make more sense, but that's not really the look I am chasing.
Heres a pic of the steering column in the DeBenidictus car above. According to the old Hot Rod article, it had a '32 steering box, but I kinda wonder about that.
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