"By three methods we MAY learn wisdom" The May 2013 Banger Meet

I got the B engine in my newest acquisition running great yesterday. I ran it through the back roads. It ran strong, the trans shifted as it should, no clutch chatter. I was happy.

As I turned approached the house, the car dies. Long story short, the timing gear went. It is a Diamond B Block mated to a very nice A transmission. It blows no smoke, started great and ran strong. I am planning on pulling the engine and selling it complete less the generator and starter. Someone could replace the gear, a few seals and drop it into their project.

Questions:

What is it worth "as is"?

What would it be worth it I replace the gear and get it running again?

Video from yesterday: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFoks2XHoPY&feature=youtu.be

 

Not sure on worth, but I know what I would be willing to pay for it locally in current shape. Not to say someone else wouldn't pay more. I'd pay $500 bucks, Basically consider it a core. I've seen one for $850 not selling. and lots in the $1000 dollar range. also not selling. I think the market is really subjective.

 

So there were some interesting posts on the Ford Barn suggesting that detonation may be an issue with a high compression head and a B distributor static timed at 19* BTDC (stock B timing). Anyone run into this issue?

 

I have an original Winfield 6-1 head and I followed Bill's advice and set the timing at 5 degrees advance static timed off the crank. Used one of those gages and a timing light. So far it sounds and runs well. No over the road use other than the local neighborhood.

 

So your initial timing is 5* BTDC? You using an A front cover or a B?

 

Using an A cover. Nu-Rex gauge with the crank pulley marked at TDC. Gauge can be removed after timing if you don't like the idea of it being there.

 

On my last stock B with a 7.5:1 Wieand head and Brierly cam. I ran a stock B distributor with 10 deg. initial timing. No detonation problems.

Not all heads have the same combustion chambers. I have heard that there are different shapes that are more prone to detonation.

.

 

Got the box back on and went for a road test

 

Getting ready for the new engine...going to hang hoist with a leveler from the lift raise it a little and back the car up.

The timing gear failing was just the excuse I needed

 

But I end up on a youtube video, showing a Dodge banger salt racer! Kuul, but not was I was looking for... Does anyone have the dimensions for lighten the flywheel of a Ford Model A/B/G28T banger?

 

Finished installing the snubber in my latest A rear end build. The purpose of the snubber is to keep the ring gear from pushing away from the pinion under hard starts. I had seen a snubber in Halibrand drawings in an old Halibrand manual purchased from Speedway some years back. One day I had a discussion with Vic King regarding the strength of the model A rear end. He said the problem was that the ring gear pushed away from the pinion and then the pinion would climb the ring and something would break. So the snubber keeps the ring gear from pushing away. It is located just past the center of the pinion. This is not needed for the average hot model A. We do 2 nd gear starts with our modified. We run Al V8 flywheels with a 10.5" clutch. When Jay drove the car he would do what he called slip the clutch. What he meant was that he just wound it up and slipped his foot off of the clutch pedal. I took a few photos. I think my snubber is a larger dia than the one in the Halibrand drawing. I use a piece of Bronze threaded 5/8" 18. I try to set the clearance close to .005 to .007 The manual said to make contact then back off 20 degrees. I don't know what the pitch of the thread they used so I might be setting my snubbers too close. The photos show laying out the location, drilling with hole saw, the position fixture drilled and tapped to hold adapter squarely at the proper depth for welding, the photos should explain them selves

 

Nice work! Are we going to see hi-RPM clutch dumps now?

 

"Dumping the clutch"
If you check these 66 hillclimb results out you will see that we were only beaten by cars with 4 port engines. Our Winfield flat head was faster than any OHV other than the F heads at this particular race. Gotta be quick off the line to do that!

 

Hi, the post is #104, but one picture is missing. Here are the two pics with the dimensions for lightning the flywheel and my comment on the pictures.
Hope the pictures show,
Eddy


Hi Fro,
I don't want to alarm you but did you use the dimensions stated in the January 2006 S0SS magazine? Or did you use the corrected dimensions?
In the Jan. issue it stated that you had to cut the inside of the flywheel to 5.735R but this is to much!!! You can only machine it to 5.3125R as stated in the note he put in the following magazine!!!! Here are pics of the mag and the note (I don't have a scanner so I took pictures of them).
I hope you cut it to the correct dimensions. I used the correct dimensions exept I did not machine it to use a V8 clutch, I still use the stock one.

http://images56.fotki.com/v371/photos/5/1067625/8700305/IMG_1584-vi.jpg


http://images56.fotki.com/v362/photos/5/1067625/8700305/IMG_1586-vi.jpg




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Nice Job Bill I really like the fixture bar.



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Ok guys I'm sure this isn't the first time you have been asked. My engine is knocking. It's not to loud and only when at full advance. Pulled wires one by one and found it was in number four. The car had been sitting for a number of years when I got it. It didn't start knocking until I got about 50 miles on it after I got it fired up. My question is do you think reshimming number four should be a good start? I hope that's all it takes. Don't have the money to rebuild and I really want to drive the piss out of it. Thanks.


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Thanks, it is a piece of s**** Al.

 

Adjusting the clearence should do the trick. But since you will have the pan off, you should check and adjust all of the bearings. Rods and mains. The you should be good for a long time.


'

 

The s**** bin is a great place to get fixture stock from.

 

Thanks, really thanks a lot!

I'm working on the engine at the moment, but I have to keep it a secret for now, as I have to race a friend and fellow HAMB'er in 9 days, at the Landfield Rock 'n' Race, Middelfart, Denmark (http://traditional-hotrods.dk/?page_id=4/arrangementer/trackdays-infolandfield-rocknracetrackdays-info/page-1). So I cannot tell too much, before we have p***ed the 17th and 18th of May. But then I will let you guys in on the details! ;-)
Until then, you can read the blog, where I've been going through the AA engine since mid April: http://dannerrsblog.blogspot.com

 

Hey guys, I need a little input....

I'm collecting material for my 4-into-2 header...1.5" x .065 wall stainless tubing, 90* and 45* elbows. If I'm running duals all the way out the back, what size exhaust pipe should I run? If all the tubes are equal length, the engineer in me says that 1.5 will be large enough to carry spent gases out. Does anyone see fault in my "logic"?

 

I did this on my RPU with Red's headers and now I'm trying to figure out an easy way to put an "equalizer" tube in to reduce the "rap". I'm going to try placing it in the straight section just behind the header to exhaust connection. probably 3/4" tube. I remember on the "stovebolts" Chevy 6's split manifolds they recommended a "dime" sized hole in the blocking plate. On the flathead V8's they just plugged the heats with a piece of tin from a can to make them rap more. I ran 2" from the headers back with 18" Cherrybombs just in front of the axle. 1.5 should be plenty for most uses but I have my 2 port in the car Tail pipes run to rear bumpers..

 

I am running 11/2 tube on my header now but my next one will be make it 15/8. It is less RPMs but a SB Chevy runs 15/8 for there mild motors.



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BC, I was thinking of using 1.5" exhaust pipes from each header out to the rear of the car....duals, man!

 

My Bad...
I think I would go 17/8 or 2" like Bill has on his. I like the sound of the cross over tube that Bill is talking about. I only have one tail pipe but I started at 17/8 then I did 2" and now I am up to 21/2 and it's much better.


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My dad is using 1 5/8" tube for the header and running 1 3/4" duals from the header back with dual 18" gl***packs. hear is a video:

 

I have taken a lot of advise on this this is what the final design for my headers for the Rutherford is. The two outside ports into one at a length of 24 inches from the valve seat, likewise for thetwo inside ports. Then from these two collectors 30 inches to the next collector then 24 inches to the muffler. I am useing inch and three quarter O.D. pipe some experts have told me I should take the pipe size one size up at each collector. Many folks have told me that headers would make very little difference to a model A or B motor I beg to differ. I would reffer you to the october 1977 custom @ rod ideas mag in which they interview Ed Winfield here he talks about exhaust designs particually in regard to the only overhead he made . He changed to a single collector because he felt that that the siamese port job was over scavengeing some of the cylinders years later Rex Mays the driver who drove the car at Ascot stated " Say remember when you took those exhaust pipes off that car at Ascot? Yes said Ed Well, said Mays I never saw anything make such a difference in a car in my life!!
I would recomend you read anythin you can find on Ed Winfield and banger cars. When I first started playing with them I use to correspond with Ed the best advice he ever gave me was when you design (build) a motor you start at a given point before the carb to a given point down the exhaust usually where it turns red hot first when running and work on the airflow from there remember this was the man who designed the two up two down motor and worked on sorting the Nova racing motors .
I am useing siamese design because I feel with the size of the ports and small Winfield carbs it is about air speed through the head.
Just to point out although Ed only made one overhead he lent the patterns to others and more may have been cast.

 

An interesting read is Urb Stairs book, he describes how the race car exhausts were built when they started to pair the exhaust tubes. One interesting comment was in regarding cutting the exhaust pipe end at an angle, they all did it and then someone cut his square and the car performed better so they all started cutting. What he writes is what he experienced.

 

Great info, guys! I need to read a little more on the subject, but for now......

I see that "pairing" cylinders has an advantage, especially for high(er) performance motors....er,engines. How "bad" can a set of headers similar to Charlie Yapp's cast manifolds be? My plan is to have 1 and 2 into a collector, then 3 and 4 into the other, each having their own exhaust pipe all the way out the back. Ought to have a unique sound, but will it really hurt the driveability? Not looking for a freeway burner, just a fun city/cruise-in ride with a little hot rod at***ude.

Keep the info coming.....got a lot to learn!

 

I remember a guy that split his A manifold and it sounded like a John Deere tractor, I believe C Yapp's exhaust would have a similar sound but haven't heard an engine running them. The John Deere's I'm speaking of had 2 large horizontal cylinders and were called "Popping Johnnys". I used to drive one 60 years ago. Pairing cylinders for performance usually pairs 1 with 4 and 2 with 3 keeping the tubes the same length.