You know... I am pretty sure Harland Sharp makes a rocker arm set for the shaft mounted caddy valvetrain-that is adjustable. that said, the ones for an olds are well over 400 bucks. I would buy them again and again, but they are not cheap. with a solid lift cam, I wouldn't trust an adjustable pushrod- especially on a high lift cam-the spring pressures are gonna have to be pretty stout, and the pushrod holes on a caddy head don't look like there is alot of "room for error" as far as elongating them is concerned. I just don't want to see you run into any valvetrain problems. I am looking forward to seeing the car make a killer p***,though. 12's on a caddy mill are a fairly high expectation, but not impossible.
i noticed no one answered this question, but all the same scratch i have faith... good luck... ill lean towards it can be done....
I'll admit, i have limited experience on pre 55 engines. An engine is an engine. I'd agree if it were some gutless Flatty. BUT, i had a 54 Caddy last summer than ran pretty dam good cosidering it must've weighed near 5000 lbs. Cut the weight in less than half, a mild solid stick, some judicious head porting, compression up around 10-1, I'd say start with 4.56 gears (w/stick-less w/Hydro)considering the tall rear tires that Skratch will run, and that thing should have no problem getting in the 12's. Now my 54 Caddy was no rocket ship, but it sure outperformed most the 283 Chevy's i've had in cars 1000 lbs lighter than the Caddy. You know, 57 Chevy type stuff. And i know i can get a 283 in the 12's with a 2000 lb car. ****, there was many a 57 Chevy in the 12's with the 283. Granted, it was a hand grenade 283 and 5.57 gears in the rear. But it got done. Now add let's say 50 cubic inches, and knock off 1500 lbs, a little of "todays" technology (cam, head porting), i'll bet someone a friendly $50 it'll go in the 12's within the first 3 p***es if it don't "kill" the tires off the line. I've built a lot of 350 Chevys in the past with flat top pistons, a real LT-1 cam, a Torker, and 750 Vacuum secondary Holley. 3.90-4.11 gears, some $12 retreads that seemed to "hook" OK on the street and ran mid 13's in 1st Gen Camaros. No head porting, and a cam from 35 years ago. Now, at these speeds every 100 lbs is worth a tenth of a second. These cars were right around 3300 lbs. Knock off 1300 lbs (to duplicate Cherry Pie), and you've got LOW 12's. The 100 lb thing, VERY accurate, no ********. Anyway, these 350's were "no brainers". A little head porting on the Caddy, and some light pistons, and the horsepower of the "no brainer" 350 should be easily duplicated. Make sense? This thing shouldn't have to be much more than stock to run 12's in a 2000 lb car in answer to your last paragraph. Hey, i can be wrong, but like i said, a friendly $50 bet? I know it'll be fun either way
I agree with most of what Groucho says. If you are putting in arguably what can easily put out 400hp (a properly built 390) in a sub 2000 pound car, this argument goes from having nothing to do with the motor... to everything to do with the transmission, rear end and suspension. There is no reason why a properly built car with 400hp, weighing under 2000 pounds cannot run well under 12 sec ET in the 1/4 mile. -scott noteboom
I don't think it's impossible, but just cost some serious $$$. Hell, Cerny's Ply wagon ran 100+ mph (high 12, low 13) with a Cad mill.
Think of what a Cadillac was designed to do. Get 3800 to 4800 pound cars moving. Caddys make torque, and quite a bit of it for a 50s era motor. They are like diesel engines. Get anywhere near 5500 rpm, you are on borrowed time. Its going to blow up. Rod bolts will stretch, timing chain/gears all gone. You can make some subtle improvements here and there, but there are not a lot of performance parts for these engines. ARP does not have rod bolts, and I have not heard of a swap that will work. The stock timing chain is basically your only choice. Then there are the heads. There are valve train upgrades and cam profiles, but the head design still limits you. Siamesed center exhaust ports, a combustion chamber that is hard to work with. Small valves. Remember the torque I mentioned. 1/4 of a mile just isn't far enough to get this locomotive rolling. Now all of that being said I have 3 of these motors and no plans on using anything else. There seems to be a lot of misinformation about these engines too. You can make a 331 bigger by changing the bore, but you cannot make it a 390. The block was changed to accomodate the larger crank that is in the 390. 49-54 blocks have the cast in bellhousing like the 59AB, early Hemis, Olds. The 55-62 Block is the more modern SBC type. You will find most of the manual trans stuff was built to fit the early motors. There was not a standard shift offered from the factory after 1953. Coachbuilders (limos, hurses, ambulances) could still get them for a few years after that. Most of the early aftermarket speed equipment was for the early block. There were a lot of different manufactures of bellhousing adapters in the early 50s. Remember what happened in 1955? The SBC came into existance. I am sure that there was a lot more product development put into those than the new Cads. Today there are companies like Bendtsens and Wilcap that can sell you an adapter to get a variety of transmissions behind either style motor. The motor is only part of the 12 second goal. I have got to agree with a lot of the points that B*** makes. You can make all of the motor in the world, if you can't get the power to the ground, none of it matters. Build it safe, make it look the way you want, spend what you can afford, enjoy yourself.....and then see what it runs. Brock
I am still pondering why everyone think 12's seconds is smoking for a racer? Daily driver can go 12's. My grandmas mustang gt will run low 13's stock. I build mine for fun and number one to drive. It does not get any more torquer than a Nailhead and there is plenty of track for them. It took me awile to get used to shifting at 4000-4200 after jumping out of a high revving 283. Mine aint fast nor was it built to be smokin but it is fun. It may be a strecth but I still feel it is possible for the caddy. Rusty Burford
Well, at 2000 lbs (or less), it's no longer a locomotive. All my prior posts are based on opinon, not fact. But, like i said, i'll bet a friendly $50 it'll do it. 12's in a 2000 lb car? ****, it shouldn't need more than 300 HP. What's a 331 Caddy got stock? After it's built, we'll get a "feel" for where tthe thing makes the most power, and rear gear it accordingly.
I have no doubts about whether or not it can be done. It can. My thing is this. Is the goal to build this car, run an early Caddy motor and shoot for 12s or is it to run 12s with a 331 Cad motor? Think about what needs to be done. What everyones saying..use the later heads, bore it to gain some cubes, up the compression. Cadillac did all this for us when they went to the 365. So I guess I just cant see spending the $$$$ to reinvent the wheel. Now with that being said, it may be the way I'd build MY ride but this isn't my ride and I know that Skratch will achieve his goals with this project.
the car won't be too streetable.it's more show and go.but if i'm going to spend all this time and money thing should "get out"! my buddy ede's car ran 13's with a stock ho 5.0 roller motor.it was a gl*** t.so,i think i can acheive this goal.and with a little help from the Grouch... B*** you kick ***..those guys need to see that you tube vid of your car in dallas.i'm super jealous....
I know Brians model A, will go 12's no problem. My coupe at the Day of the drags went 12.80 at 102, not really trying. I think it would have gone faster with a better ch***is and some tuning. I feel low 12's could possibly happen. Brians motor is about the same as mine except he is a few cubic inches smaller, but he has a bigger cam. Now for Skratchs dilema, I think 12's are possible but not likely. I guess it matters how much he wants to spend. I think something that alot of you are missing is his intake combination, a 2x2's setup is going to have a tough time of supplying a really healthy engine. For his combination I would stick with the 331 and the 331 heads, because that intake wont support anymore airflow then that. I have dealt with this situation on the maroon 32 with the olds that we built. The car sounds killer and runs really good, but I know it would run better with more carburation. (It has an Edmunds 2x2's). I think another problem you might encounter is getting the hydro to shift properly, They operate off of throttle pressure and are really sensitive. I have a 55 caddy coupe deville that I fought that problem with. It took along time to get it to work properly. Once I got it to work properly look out that thing shifts hard!!! I also think to go that fast you are going to need the proper cam profile, and you cant find any modern ones for Caddys, they are mostly R.V. style grinds. It would be nice if you could find a good solid lifter core and have it reground, and then use adjustable pushrods. Adjustable pushrods are plenty strong, ( I have seen them used in nostalgia top fuel cars) and should work fine. If you really want your car to run 12's you have your work cut out for you. I dont really think 12's are that fast like most of you are implying, but I think you are comparing apples to oranges, if you cant get a small block powered car to run 12's you need to sort out your combination. I just feel that the technology is not there for the caddy to run as hard. I dont think it is impossible but I think it will take some work and some money. Good Luck if there is anything I can help with let me know. Jimmy White Circle City Hot Rods P.s. Just to clarify things the motor in my 32 is pretty healthy 10:1, Isky cam, 4:11 gears, and it is know way near as fast as my coupe.
You can do it Duffy Moon. Three deuces would be sweet too, or just a four barrel. I've never bought one but remember seeing a cam set up for sale on ebay that somebodys making for 365's. My stock 365 is in a 5000#er and it does OK. This block isn't known for high RPM longevity. I got a set of 390 heads I'm gonna use some day on my car. Good Luck man, can't wait to see your car.
Here's that cam, looks like RV style hydraulic. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Isky-performer-cam-for-Cadillac-331-365-390-1949-62-si_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33614QQihZ019QQitemZ8075141587
All good points and i am gambling in what i've written so far. But, you gotta see the body. There's NOTHING left. It must be chopped 2 FEET! Drivers head AND torso will stick out like a roadster. I'm placing most of my opinion on the lack of weight on this thing. Most, not all. I still think, if it don't "kill' the tires on the launch, it should only take 300 HP to go 12's in this package. We had an 11-1 350 w/Lt-1 cam, little 1.94 heads (unported), with a factory Z-28 dual plane intake in a 55 Chevy w/4.56 non posi rear, and it weighed 3450 lbs. It ran a best of 13.14 at "County" (O.C.I.R.) back around 1980(?). We took it out of the 55 and put it in my 58 Anglia that i used to street race. It weighed 2000 lbs on the nose, had 4.11 gears (non-posi also-budget ****) and it went 11.70's 1st p***. After getting used to the combo, and a little jetting it went 11.20 that day. Anyway, it was a NOTHING motor, but lack of weight sure means something. A 331 with a little port work, a mild solid stick (we'll get one for sure), and a set of custom pistons (shouldn't be much more than what's barely available), and if it don't make 350HP, i'll be really surprised. Again, it's gonna be fun. PS-when Skratch ain't looking, i'll put a 650 Holly Double pump on the *****. I do agree with the induction being a drawback. So, what's a stock 331 make for HP?
Just for the hell of it. Ten years ago, 8" street tires, 2 1/2" exhaust, small block, no nitrous, 1st p*** ever (Palmdale-3500 foot elevation), working hideaway headlites, big stereo system, 3.70 gear, shifting right at 6000 RPM. Can you read the ET and speed?
the intake was a three two's intake with the center milled and plated and welded.i'm thinking two 500cfm rodchesters?
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