calling bruce lancaster and every other flatty guru

i have a 47 ford flathead ford and i am having an oil delivery issue
like i dont have any oil pressure
the car has been sitting for quite some time now and i am in the process of reviving it
i changed the pump... didnt work
the pickup is clean
what gives
Matt worksman says that it could be an oil galley plug missing, but how do i check that without pulling the motor
should i pull the intake to try top diagnose the problem or would that not matter ( i know the oil galley plugs are not in the intake)(thanks matt)
could i have a broken cam???
this is making me think that this motor may be toast
it actually runs good... minus the oil thing
thanks for any help
tom
tjk.fab@gmail.com

 

Are you using the electric guage? If so, try a manual.

 

manual
and i took off all the external lines, like the feed line for the filter and it isnt even sputtering oil out of them
tk

 

More info please. When did this oiling problem start?,how old is the engine,what condition,cam bearings ever been replaced?? Just need more info>>>>.

 

There is a galley plug that was often left out after they were vatted. Happened to my dad on a motor that was in storage for 30 years. Talked to old flat head guy, and he told him about it, and that was the problem. I don't know which one, but some one will. The motor ran, had about 7 lbs. of pressure before the fix.

 

the motor has a rebuild tag on the side of it
i do not know anything about it except for that
the car was sitting for a real long time before i got it. I just through some gas down the carb and gave it some spark and it fired right up
i just reciently got it to the point where i have the radiator and hoses conected. gen and fuel line hooked up
it had an electric gauge hooked up and i just figured it didnt work
so i let the car run in the driveway to check everything out
it ran great but when the temp gauge got to 180 it started to shut down
thats when i put the mechanical gauge on it and descoverd the lack of pressure.
i took off the pan and cleaned it out put a new pump from speedway in it, thinking it would cure my problem.... no love
when i took off the pan there wasn't any crap in the pan to speak of
pick up is clean
i am stumped
tk

 

@ oil galley plugs,1 in the rear,leave it out and you get oil on the ground from the leek,1 in front behind timing gear,leave it out and you get low oil press,oil leeks into inside of engine>>>>.

 

The front plug is behind the timing gear cover, the rear plug is open to the rear of the engine (if I remember correctly). So if it is the rear you would have a pool of oil under the car. The 59A also has the oil pressure regulator at the front of engine under the intake, if that wasn't reassembled correctly you could have no oil pressure.

Did you take the oil filter feed line off the filter or off the back of the block. Even with the pug missing at the front of the engine I would expect some flow out of the block at the pressure sender/oil filter block since it would be well before the galley plug, but I could be wrong.

 

i took of the oil filter feed line from the block and blew it out to see if that was plugged and just left it off hopping it would be like jed clampid and see some bubbling crude when i started the car again, no love
tk

 

Even main gallery leaks from missing plug or fubar pressure relief would likely still allow some oil to be tossed out with the plugs in back removed.
As a harmless diversion before the going gets hard, prime the pump: Hook up a line to a can from the oil pressure plug and let about a quart trickle in there, test rimmediately after it goes in. If Nada, I would start by dropping pan and examining pump before tearing engine out. This is a pretty bulletproof oiling system generally, and there must be something odd in there.

 

Thats what I was thinking also Bruce. I was thinking to try to prime it also, but I have not had enough experience with the flathead to know if this is a common thing to do.

If I had to guess I would think that the cam to pump idler gear is missing, that is if you can't prime the pump.

 

If this engine has been idle for a long period of time there is a good chance that the oil pressure port is sludged up and this sludge has hardened to prevent the oil pressure sender to work correctly. Since you don't complain about the engine knocking there is a good chance that it has oil pressure and the port is plugged with crap. Pull the oil pressure sender and take a a coat hanger and see if you can poke down in that port and remove any crud that has developed.

The back yard way to check, is to remove the oil pressure sender from the rear of the block, place a shop towel over the port and start the engine. Don't rev it up! If you have oil pressure it should leak at that point. I know this sound goofy but it this engine has been running it something simple.

 

You can't prime it like an Chevy with an electric drill or such, because the pump is hooked directly to the cam via idler gear. Like said your better off pulling the pan. If this is done you loosen the one bolt and take the pump off, check the gears for clearence and then when everything is ok put a good amount of grease inside the pump between the gears.

 

its a new pump but i can try the grease thing

thanks guys
tk

 

Got oil in her Tom Did you pull the intake and crank her to see?

 

New pump...one HAMBer reported a new pump that had seat and plunger of relief valve eccentric to each other, and Ron on Fordbarn has reported them with excess leakage due to incorrect size where they seat into block. I would still expect either to move some oil upstairs, though.
NOTHING coming out would have to mean missing gear, sheared pin in gear, something not drilled at pump factory...some kind of total failure. Pump normally puts out more oil than any single leak can flow, so if engine was in use before and it has a new pump... seems pump has a MAJOR problem or something went drastically wrong at installation.

 

Post is rather confused...izzit a '42-46 open pickup banjo or a '57 Ford??
Pickup rear uses same axle as '42-48 Ford, '42--47 pickup.

 

it didnt have oil pressure with the old pump so thats why i changed it out
and the old one didnt seem to be worn to much.
tk

 

Well, prime the thing via port and can method, and give it a spin while oil is still flowing in back there...see if it can spit out the oil when it is full.
The inability to push out any oil from the ports is odd. It would have some flow there even with the front plug out. Remember a '47 will have another relief valve in valley that you need to check on...but it is hard to imagine any single failure that would flow enough to totally kill output at the ports right over pump.
New pump is presumably a late one, which mounts high and is so weaker on pickup side...but if old pump also couldn't do anything, that's irrelevant.
You can pop the front cover and unbolt cam gear in half an hour to expose the front plug...

 

One thing you can do is have the oil pan off, remove the pick up screen and connect the pick up tube to a hose and stick the hose in a oil can with oil. Then let the engine crank with the starter (best 12volt battery direkt to the starter for some real turns and spark plugs out!).
Then you should see if some oil reaches your main and rodbearings, even detect a leak or bad bearing. At least you can sse if the pumps does the job or not. You might take a flash light for closer inspektion. Don't forget to place some big pan under the engine, it's gonna be a mess.

 

If it is a 59a style engine then it has a bypass valve under the intake at the front. A big hex bolt with a spring and a plunger under it. If that is missing then that will be your oil pressure loss. I had a "rebuilt" engine with this missing which had the same symptoms- 0 oil pressure. Stuck the right part in the hole and all was good.

Also you don't mention it but if the mech fuel pump and pushrod has been pulled for a electric pump and the hole hasn't been plugged that will loose you pressure too..

 

still using the stock fuel pump
thanks
again for all the advise
i am on my way to the garage with a list to try and solve the problem
tk

 

ok so i did all the things that were posted above, except.... how do i get the cam gear off? is there a special tool
also when i took off the intake it was spotless inside. there was zero black sludge build up in the valley

i tryed to prime the pump
i took off the intake and checked the by pass
grease in the pump
and none of that worked... it has to be the galley screw

thanks
tom

 

hmmm...if its got an early cam with a pressed on gear your kinda screwed maybe you can remove the bypass spring and try to snake a wire down in the oil galley. if it hits an immediate blockage once it goes around the corner id say the suspect plug is installed

 

Most post-39 or so have a cam gear held on with four bolts (bolts are placed a symmetrically so gear goes on right) and it just wiggles off after bolts are out. Earlier cams could be fitted, and they have press-on gear, but that's unlikely on a 59.

 

my cam and gear has 2 rings with slots ground into them
the slots look factory not like a guy with a cut off wheel
i was thinking that you hit the slot to loosen the inner ring or maybe there is a tool the holds the outer ring that alows you to turn the inner ring
tk

 

If no bolts. it is a press-on. Is it fiber or aluminum?? If aluminum version, you could drill a hole at right diameter area for that plug and rotate til you can see it.
Anyhow, this is getting close to time to pull engine once above checks are made...

 

shit
guess the sbc will go in now
and i wanted to be different like everyone else
tk