I went to my local paint house here in town and asked if I could paint Dupont Chromabase eurethane over Iron Clad enamel. Basically I want the flat eggshell finish of Iron Clad in a dark navy or charcoal black and then want to paint either flames or scallops over the top in a burnt orange pearl Chromabase or one of the 4 House of Color hues that I have on my shelf in the garage. They said it wouldn't work, but I'm wondering if I could spray an intermediate layer of a mutually compatable clear that would solve the issue. Any painters that can help me with this or offer a better suggestion. I just do not want to spend $400 on flat paint....I laready have $1000 in paint that I'll never use and it makes me sick. They suggested Uteck with a sating clear coat, but that isn't really a solution...I want it FLAT.
Was the "enamel" catilyized ? Is it Alkyd Enamel,Acrylic Enamel,....Mystery Enamel,etc ? The solvents in the newer paints can react with some Enamels,causing problems.
Iron Clad is the paint I'm talking about - I was told that it is enamel based. Basically it's a direct-to-metal paint that is typically used on outdoor steel structures, but a lot of guys I know with old hot rods have been painting their cars with it for years. No need to clear coat or anything. Once reduced/thinned it sprays nice and hardener can be added to improve road durability.
I don't see why not, as long as that enamel-stuff "gassed-out" a long time ago. How long has it been on the car? If the answer is "a very long time", scuff it up, lay a tack-coat down and go... just don't hose it on thick. Take your time... that's pretty much true for any paint job. -ns
Since you say hardener can be added, does that mean it was?? It makes a huge difference. Sounds to me like an alkyd enamel?
OK, I HAVE the burnt orange/copper pearl color already...it's DuPont Chromabase. My plan was to paint the truck flat navy or charcoal and use the chromabase as my accent color. If there's NO WAY Iron Clad is going to allow for the chromabase to be sprayed over it, I won't purchase or use it. If it is possible and won't cause any issues, or there is a way around any potential issues then I'd like to use it. Hardener CAN be added to it so that it hold up better...but if hardener will cause issues I won't do that either.
OK I get it now. IMO I'd stay away from the Iron Clad stuff. It sounds like alkyd enamel which is a btch to paint over with anything or remove. Instead your DuPont rep has it right. However there are more options than merely what he has mentioned. For instance, a flattened single stage urethane would do the trick well for you. Cheap, and its urethane. Treat the job like two seperate ones, spray the SS and let cure, lay out your graphic, scuff only inside your layout, base, clear, done deal. It will leave an edge but it still accomplish the effect. I'm sure you have an idea as to how you want to do the job. But as far as products go, there are many better chioces.
Thanks Slow...any advice on a cheaper urethane that will hold up well? Is U-tech decent stuff? She quoted me $199/gallon for it and said I'd need 1.5 gallons for my '56 pickup. She even said it was a better option than Hotrod Flatz...maybe she meant better as in - it's less expensive.
i shoot HOK over enamels/rustoleums all the time..i make sure to scuff with 400,then adhesive promoter...lay your flames,done deal.all these cars were done this way.
I think that sounds like its around the same price as Hot Rod flatz. Any paint store that mixes in house can mix up a single stage with flattener so thats not really an issue. I deal mostly in PPG for stuff like that (which is actually kind of what Hot Rod Flatz is) so I can't really comment on much else. Look around and see what you can come up with. 1.5 gallons seems a bit excessive, but better to over order than be short when its your own stuff.
Thats just asking for trouble IMO. I wouldn't wanna chance a long lasting, expensive paint job over Rust-o-leum or the like. I can see you know what your doing and it may have worked for you, but its not for me.
im not saying rustoleum is the best choice either..they are just 25$ jobbers...BTW some of the cars were painted 7 years ago,and still look fine..he was aking if it would work or not..im just saying it worked for me..that was the topic.
I just had a problem spraying Dupont Chromabase over some old enamel paint (of unknown origin) 2 days ago. I primed the truck a couple times with some cheap junk Napa (non-catalyzed) primer. When I shot the Chromabase, it attacked the enamel under the primer and lifted it. The truck looked like it had poison ivy . I should have sprayed a 2k primer to attempt to hold the enamel down. I wasted about $150 in BC Trying to save $$ and cut corners never works out. You could go with Dupont's "Nason" line of urethane paint - which is just a single stage urathane. Any shop that mixes it should be able to flatten it. The Nason is pretty cheap - I think it was around $250 for a gallon of color (heavy metallic green '95 GM), gallon of reducer, and the hardener. Check the paint reduction on the can prior to buying the reducer though - as the can I just bought was 8-2-1, so I could have got away with buying just 2 quarts of reducer and had plenty. Oh yeh - Utech is a nice paint as well. It is "Sikken's" single stage urethane line. Basecoat (the Dupont Chromabase) is pretty harsh stuff, it has a lot of "bite" to it. I spilled a little on the floor, and it peeled up the floor paint like paint stripper would on a car.
We use nason flat black under hoods and stuff like that, it is dirt cheap too, I would not put a urethane over any enamel, your best option is to get a couple quarts of the nason one part sealer and a gallon of the flat black and spray that, but over your pearl what are you going to do??? a flat clear will hide the pearl and you cant just leave the base, also if you do clear it there will be a pretty nasty edge.
Is dupont your only option? I use PPG stuff (but that's what the body supply place near me has) and they have a lot of options that are much cheaper than chromabase. For a quart of white single stage that was flattened it was 43$ including the reducer and hardener. Now depending on color the price will go up, but that's less than 200$ a gallon, and it's GOOD paint. Then you can scuff it and put what ever you want on it. And for me that peace of mind is worth every penny. that's just my opinion and i don't do body/paint for a living, but I have had all sorts of problems spraying urethane over enamels. For me it doesn't work.
Not trying to discredit you or argue, just disagreeing thats all. I respect your opinion and obviously the facts dont lie, those flamejobs rule.
Bill is right, don't do it. You're asking for trouble. Maybe they can get away with in in SoCal, cause the paint probably "bakes" on in the first week, but anywhere else, you'll have problems with the aggressive solvents in HOK attacking the cheap enamel. Using a good sealer is not a sure fire preventative, either. There are many other options, even in Dupost, you just have to talk to the right people to get the right products. And "cheap" is not a good work in the paint business. Even cheap paint ain't cheap! AND it probably won't last long!
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