Hello all I’m in the tail end of getting 40 coupe up and going. When I got the car, it is all fresh, including a 12V conversion. I got the car running and it was not charging. Generator was rebuilt and converted, and had a new voltage regulator. I took the generator into a local shop, they tested it and said it worked fine. I came home, put a “new” voltage regular on that I had, no charge. I ordered 2 “NOS” American Bosch regulators, they show up, neither wok. Finally, I pull a crusty known working regulator off my 57 F100. Now it charges yes, I polarized the regulators. I’m a dummy beyond that. I find it hard to believe none of these regulators work. Is there a way to test them? Any advise? First photo is all of the “non working” regulators. Second is crusty working one. Again, I’m a dummy with electrical.
I’d like to know if there is a way to test these things, or at least talk with guys who know more about them than me. Half of these are new in the box. From the 50’s/60’s. I find it odd none of them work. Besides, the working one has staggered holes for the cover, none of the others do
Are you sure you had a good earth on the 'dud' regulators? If there's no charge at all it's likely the the cutout bit of the unit isn't operating. The cutout bit of the regulator has two windings on a single coil bobbin, One for voltage, one for current. The voltage winding is connected internally from the generator output to earth, the current winding goes internally from the generator output to the battery connection. You can normally only see the current winding which is a few turns of very thick wire, the voltage winding is usually underneath the current winding and is very fine wire. The two windings work together to close, hold, and open the cutout points as needed. But if the earth connection isn't good, the cutout will never engage.
Got it. I know nothing about them other than covering them up. On 1st gen Camaros I used the crappy electronic ones and use old Delco Remy covers on them.
I see the base is different on the "non-working" units...may be they are not grounding ? Need to ground them with those rubber isolators.
Thank you for this, on all regulators that didn’t work, I did run a jumper wire from a ground to the base of regulator, and it made no difference
Good ground as stated above. Also clean the points. The electronics work a lot like the points in your Crab. That's how they charge and cutout when fully charged. You can set these distances and in fact are set at the factory. However over time and through the natural processes around us they get stuck together, dirty, or bent. Ever had a Generator run like an electric motor? or worse yet burn up on the car? This is a function of sticky or bad point contacts ( only in this case they act as switches ). That's why most are on a spring at the rear You can look up the .000 settings in a spec sheet. Or if your real lucky know an old guy who can still fix this stuff. Good Luck - Tim
I haven’t take a cover off one in years, but remember in an old Motors Manual talk of cleaning them up/rebuilding them. I seem to recall contact points? I wonder if just being on the shelf for a long time maybe the contacts oxidized? Worth a shot to take a look.
Try opening them up and cleaning the tarnish off of the points contacts. Budget36= quick with the keyboard
Definitely pull the cover off and check if the points are corroded looking. But, be aware if you clean them up with a point file and open the gap, the point adjustment is in the super-minuscule, smaller than any tape measure I had could read. I had a couple generators and regulators I sent to Rusty in Colorado to rebuild and calibrate before he closed up shop. Now it’s too late.
Usually, dragging a new dollar bill through the closed points a few times is enough to get the tarnish off the contacts. The paper is just course enough to remove it without compromising the contact. I wouldn't file them unless they've been arc pitted.
My thoughts exactly. But I guess not. I would go with a one wire alternator built in the generator housing and not run a old regulator. That’s what I did with my coupe. Used the guy from California. E J Whitney. Fullerton CA.
You have several different regulators in that pile with different wiring hookups. Have you verified that any of them are the same as the old one that works?
yep, verify ground and correct wire connections. looks like the 12A104 is the odd one of the group for connections but, I cant make out the labeling on the chrome one's terminals. the chrome one also looks like it's ground strap is missing, I can see them on both bottom regulators. top left and middle right don't need them as they mount directly without isolators, like the crusty one. here are some scans for reading material: notice service note #1
Your collection of regulators look like a mixed bunch. First you need to know if you have an A or B circuit generator. An A circuit generator has an externally grounded field (the regulator completes the ground, most GM generators). A B circuit generator has and internally grounded field (the regulator sends current to the field, most Ford generators). You have to match the regulator to the type generator you have. Since your 57 Ford regulator worked, that tells me you have a B circuit generator. You can still get the correct regulator through NAPA, VR412SB. That's what I've been running on my 57 T-Bird for many years. To make it look more period correct, I paint the cover gloss black and add a decal from one of the T-Bird parts suppliers. Makes it look just like the one that was put on at the factory.
I had a car that had not been driven for a while . it had a brush in a generator that was sticking put a couple new regulators on it they would charge for a while & not kick back in you could tap on it and it would start charging. pulled the brushes out and gave them a light sanding never had another issue
There’s a post on here with most of the information from Bruce Lancaster regarding the fact that early fords polarize differently than GM and others. https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/voltage-regulators.607458/ https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/how-to-select-the-correct-voltage-regulator.870868/ https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/voltage-regulator-generator-help.386451/
When I converted my '40 flathead over to 12 volts it wouldn't charge. Took it to an autoelectric guy and he said I had a GM regulator on it instead of the proper Ford one. Put a Ford one on and it worked fine.
When you polarize a generator what you are doing is sending current through the field in its normal direction. This will induce a residual magnetism in the pole shoes in the generator. It is this residual magnetism that allows a generator to work without needing a battery to start it. You can also test to see if you have either a generator or regulator problem when the generator is not charging. On A circuit generators, GM cars, you can remove the field wire from the regulator and ground it. If the generator starts to charge (engine running) your problem is in the regulator. The generator and wiring are okay. If it doesn't start charging there is a problem with the generator or wiring. You shouldn't run the generator for more than a few seconds this way as there is no regulation on either voltage or current. You can damage electrical components and or the generator. On a B circuit generator, Fords, you can disconnect the field wire from the generator and connect it to the Bat terminal. The outcome is the same as above.
Thank you everyone, this is great info! Yes, I do realize one of the regulators has the post in different locations, it was hooked up correctly tho when I tried it. I knew nothing about A and B circuit regulators, that’s the kind of info I was hoping for. I will poke at this a little more. As to the few suggestions that I simply run a 1 wire alternator…isn’t this a 65-earlier hot rod forum?
Full field testing, I still have the bypass tools but they're for 60's-70's cars. 3 of those look right, but you can't use a jumper wire to polarize them (you didn't say how you did it). I would as other said open them up and check. Also the correct Standard Ignition regulators are: VR-21 37 amp gen VR-35 30 amp gen https://www.ebay.com/itm/314538724557?hash=item493bf80ccd:g:YOMAAOSwTrNkQESj&amdata=enc:AQAIAAAA4PY/xYBC6d44yk+Ju7Na14wraf3DtK9DChmvlp/7Uar8R5LaZNOlvA4G2uO0a8IfEPREAr3iIpBYKKUM2SZy6ui+l2d6sRzPtZz8Q1H1WEpxp97Ejnfhr31eu32wKEbaPjb7f62zAVtDKbUSY81mEpbr2bxT69KMtl+aackBGWcwxuy+qh1ZXIc0g+5RRFmH2EgHBymcf5U2myBA7EQXDmkXHiFTZq48MzpQW+qZrIQS8Sjzv0Pk6AitDxifyHm2x+v0EuwGTVsGACsqGc4HC+bBSSvCb+FvizVmdFaNTNqK|tkp:Bk9SR_rp56_7YQ
I'd take the cover off the working one and observe, or better, video its operation as the engine is started and running. Then do the same on the other ones, to see if they physically do the same thing.
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