Can you build a real Chevy 302?

Alderman on YouTube and on engine Masters change your rod length on a small block Chevy and on a big block Chevy but no changes on the dyno both engines made almost exactly the same power

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I wonder if their is an acceleration component... or does it move torque peak..rpm? you see pistons pushing the wrist pin into the oil ring groove, probably could use shorter 5.7 rod.

 

Yeh, this whole debate over "ideal" rod length evades me, at least for a street motor, sure, in some racing circles it is appreciated but for the street, what is to be gained.
The production 302 was considered an engine on the"ragged edge" for street engines of the era, those cars were basically race cars with licence plates.

 

Not bad at all.... Might have to save some scheckles ($$) for a couple of months...

 

I reàd elsewhere that some scca 302 sbc engines were making 560 horsepower.... Thats stock L-88 territory right there.....

 

The exact displacement for a 4 inch bore and 3 inch stroke is 301.5936. Hot rodders just left off the .5936. Ford and Chevrolet both rounded it up to 302. Sort of like a 350 Chevy is really 349.84 rounded up to 350. Take a 327 with a 283 crank and you get 30l.5936, take a 283 and bore it to 4.00 and you get 301.5936. Samo samo. What you get is an engine that LOVES to buzz high. I remember my 69 Z28. It was nice below 4 grand and above, wow, power came on like gangbusters and Irby as another motor altogether! Loved it!

 

I took the stock 780 off of mine and installed 650 double pumper on it.... It had better street manners.....

 

img054 by GlassThamesDoug posted Feb 23, 2014 at 7:57 PM

Built this for my Dads Studebaker...
His age was showing.... the engine was not suitable for the updated 3.08 gears with 700R4 trans running at 1500 rpm....

 

I put 4.88 gears in my 68 Z28 and it worked quite well on the street!

 

Big RPM. Pick your poison.

 

Back in the early 70's you could order a 302 fitted block from the Chevrolet dealer's parts department for about 350 1972 dollars If you managed to get a buddy deal that gave you a small journal block fitted with the correct 302 pistons. I'm not sure if it came with rods or not. A friend bought one and we put it together and put it in his 55 Chev 2 door post.
The first shop I worked in in Texas ran dirt track modified cars and my boss would go to the local scrap dealer and hunt through the engine pile for 327 blocks and 283 cranks. A set of 302 TRW pistons from the parts house across the street from the shop and they had a 302 to fit in the class they ran in.

 

Well REALLY....de-stroking a 350 to a 302 is just swapping torque (what we 'feel' when we nail-it!) for noise. Sure,,,it will scream with enough gear but chances are a 350 is gonna walk off and leave ya at the light. Still sound cool though (Like a snotty camshaft with an attitude)
Long 6" (6" IS long to some folks!) anyhow.....long rods equal short pistons which are lighter than big pistons. They may not rev any faster or make more power but it will make life a little easier on rods and cranks not having AS much weight trying to pull it in two at 9000 RPM.!!
I would think LOTSA gear.....LOTSA carb.....LOTSA duration.....112 LSA on that cam......LOTSA gonads to drive it right!!!
6sally6

 

The ONLY reason for the factory 302 to be built was for the SCCA Trans-Am program, as were other make's special engines, It got a lot easier when SCCA allowed destroking, so they no longer had to run the little engines in street cars- but the resulting 350 size engines were much stronger on the street. A forerunner to the 70-1/2 LT1 350s was a Car & Driver 69 Camaro project car, using the Z/28 parts on a 350 and smoked over a bit, and ran pretty good, as did the REAL early LT1s- it was called the Blue Maxi, in Penske colors- IIRC, they gave it away in a magazine contest. There were some other screamers that resulted from Trans-Am, like the 303 Pontiac with all the good 400 parts but destroked, and the Mopars with the destroked 340. I have been taking care of a dead stock 69 Boss 302 since 75, and the 69s had 2.23 intake valves, but the cam was mild enough to be easy to drive- in fact, with 3.91 gears, it can be started out in second gear. Most of the reason for the couple years that the Camaro won was the Penske/Donahue program, not any superiority of the Z/28- especially in 69 where a lot of luck was involved. Penske did things like a farm-style fueling tower and 4-lug wheels to speed up pit stops lol. Penske was also a pretty good driver himself, and was a hired-gun Chaparral driver for a while, and with Donahue's engineering skill, they mad a great team. The 70 B2 was hard to beat, had the strongest engine and a good program behind it. The strongest small-block street car was the 71 Boss 351, which like the LT1, was a bigger version of the B2 (on the Cleveland platform) and would smoke many of the big block cars of the day, even in the "whalebody" later Mustang body- you had to ride in one to believe how strong they were. There really isn't any reason to build a 302 Chebbie these days other than nostalgia, a bigger cid engine will only be stronger with similar parts. One can similarly do a Clevor setup with a good-parts stroker 302 and it will look just like a B2 but more power

 

We called the it 301 when I was a starting out, 283 crank (Most all were forged that we saw ) in a 327 block. I ran 2 bolt blocks in a gas dragster regularly turning over 8000 no issues , we had no four bolt blocks , all of it was small journal pre 68 stuff . We also ran .060 over 283s 292 cubes in the dragster ,it used to see 9000 with a roller cam, roller springs and a rev kit (fingers will never be the same putting those springs in....lol)

 

Stock 3.73s on mine... No biggie!

 

My son's Model A hot rod - This is a real 302 ......from a Trans-Am Program parts bin......with vintage mechanical Hilborn injection. Flywheel dyno'd at 418 HP @ 7240 RPM. Some guys get more out of them, but we did not want to push our luck....

 

You had me at 302, tell us more!

 

I’m not a Chebbie guy anymore , but what is a MO block in 1967 ? DZ is 68 and 69 correct ?

 

The dz code was for '69s only...

 

Cross ram air cleaner sticker....

 

Falls a bit short in the torque department though

 

And of course, since it's Chebbie, it gets a free pass on the non-HAMB-friendly timeline lol

 

Gene Gene Gene!
Don't you have a Blue Oval somewhere to polish?

 

Or an envy knob

 

SBC 327 engine made it's debut in 1962.
SBC 283 engine appeared in 1957.
All the parts needed for a 301 available before 1965, therefore HAMB friendly, no????????????

Cleveland (or Clevor as you put it in your post #313) not around until late '69.

 

Truth hurts, eh? Chebbie stuff regularly gets a free pass- 454s etc. This thread is about the 302, not the old bored out 283 301s. A Clevor is a built up engine with Windsor block, usually using the 351C-2V heads. Envy a SBC? Shirley, you jest

 

It's sure funny how talk of Chevys gets your panties all bunched up, though!

 

^^^ Original post, original question. ^^^
Simple answer, YES, you can build one, using a 327 block and 283 crank, just as the poster asked. This thread is not about a genuine 302, but rather about if one can be built using the mentioned parts. Again, simple answer, YES.
What I do not see being asked is anything pertaining to Ford. It seems to be you, and only you, that is trying to blow that trumpet. I'm sure there are Ford related engine threads that you could put some constructive time and content into........................ You may even be appreciated for your input.

And as for the 'Clevor' engine, thanks for the info. I learned something.
Still not relevent though because, as you say, it uses 351c heads, which were not available until '69-'70.
Remember, you were the one who brought up whether things were 'HAMB-friendly' or not.

By the way, just thought I would let you know, I am actually a 'Ford in a Ford' kind of guy. But that is not what this thread is about, and therefore not relevent here.

 

But people posting 302 and 5.0 and 351s don't get a pass.....

 

Heads available at that time was the limiting factor for the small block Chevy, so the 302 spinning a little higher could run with the 327 & 350 big dogs
I think around 1970 when the 492 heads came out flowing over 200 cfm it helped the big dog advantage.