Looking for input: I’m gathering parts for an early A Body Dodge Dart budget build.My thinking is something along the lines of: 1. Junkyard Magnum 360 2. Early LA points type Distributor 3. Elderbrock air gap or clone intake. 4. Headers 5. Cam with with 214 - 220 at .050 intake 220 - 228 at .050 exhaust and .500 or so lift 6. 2500 or so stall speed converter in front of 904 transmission 7. 3.50:1 or there about rear ratio 8. 26 to 28 inch tall tires Is a 650 Holley double pumper a good choice for a carb. I see them regularly with good prices. Any other suggestions on any items are welcome. I know I’m opening up a can of worms lol Thanks Dan
This will open a big one of those ^^^ and bring the opinionated out of the woodwork. Holley carbs are a love/hate issue. If you love them and can work on them they are great. If you don't have the skill/knowledge to work on them or just hate them they will never work for you. I ran Holley carbs for years and still have several hanging on the wall in the garage. I was pretty good at getting them dialed in right but my buddy hated them. That said, how close are you planning on sticking to the "everything looks right for what I am building thing? Meaning what would have been "thee" four barrel on a Mopar Performance small block in the mid 60's ? As far as what that series of engine came in 273, 318, 340, 360 the original rigs weren't really on the HAMB friendly list and fit more into the buy it at the dealer hot rod age rather than the build it at home. Reading this the 273 showed up with a Carter AFB four barrel in mid 64 in 65 model cars. If you are old enough you remember those early Formula S Barracudas that could terrorize some of the guys who thought they had hot street cars. If you want it to "Look right" I'd go with an authentic Mopar AFB from that time frame. A bit of info here. https://www.hemmings.com/stories/article/1965-1967-chrysler-273-four-barrel
One thing at a time. Buy as you go. If you try gathering up a truckload of "parts/things", you will find out that half of them won't work out OR you change your mind after a while. Think.
@Mr48chev I’m not married to any one thing. My main objective is to budget build my car, I will use a junkyard Magnum 360 as it is basically an LA engine, add carburetor and traditional ignition. I never thought about an original AFB, but that’s an option if I can purchase for a decent price. I’ve had both Holley and a Elderbrock (which I believe is an AFB clone). I’m not stuck on any one carb I know that they can be made to work well. I believe with help from fellow HAMBers I can get a good tune on anything. When done I think my engine will look like a 273 which was available back in the day, as far as being a 360 vs 273 I don’t think that’s any different than a 350sbc in place of a 283. I would happily run a 273 if I could find a runner cheap just for the cool factor. I know a few guys running carbed Magnum 360s making 350 + Hp on the cheap like $1000 - 2000 total. Thank you, Dan
For your particular build, I would consider Summit's 750 cfm carburetor/w vacuum secondaries. Lose the points and go with a Pertronix conversion or aftermarket electronic distributor, such as CRT Performance. I would also consider 220-224 on the intake @ .050 and 224-230 @ .050 on the exhaust.
Sounds like a fun build to me, I have an early Barracuda with a stock 318 and an A833 overdrive four speed with 4.56:1 gears in the 8 3/4” I have Carter AFBs on everything but the Holley will work well also.
Would love an 833, found one for an a body at Jefferson for $1000, + clutch pressure plate bell housing shifter etc.,too much for my budget but man o man would that be cool Dan
Yeh the prices suck, found a good 904 for 150 rebuild kits for 100 - 300 depending and 400 - 500 for converter about half the cost of a 4 speed set up Dan
Mr48Chevy's picture is quite true when a question of this nature is asked; and I won't play as to what is best. I will offer the following: The original Plymouth 273 Carter AFB was rated at 475 CFM. At the time, AFB's were available to Plymouth from 381 to 939 CFM. The engineers chose one rated at 475. Good luck on finding a genuine 273 AFB at a "decent price"; "indecent" is probably a better adjective. They are in great demand from the restorers. An AFB for a 360 is much easier, both to acquire, and on the pocketbook. For aftermarket application, Carter suggested a 625 CFM (250/375) for a square-bore intake (9626s for the street, 4759s for racing), and an 800 CFM (see the next paragraph 200/600) for a spread-bore intake (9801s). The original Chrysler AFB's are best left to the restorers (initial cost, and availability of parts). When choosing a carburetor for a smaller engine, total CFM is less important than the type of carburetor and the CFM on both primary and secondary sides of the carburetor. Jon
Magnums have different intake bolt angles. Do some research on redrilling or carb intakes. The 904 can be built, but it's going to take some aftermarket stuff to live happily. The rest sounds good, but I'm not up on roller cams for these. Look into the valvetrain too. I know that can get pricey, so it pays to know what you are looking for and what it's worth so you can jump when a deal comes along. You mention early. That's pre-72 to me, which is small bolt pattern. This is going to affect rear and brakes. It will be a lot easier to go 5x4.5 instead of 5x4 when upgrading, unless you already have an 8.75, discs and wheels in the small pattern. 8.75 gear around there is 3:55 https://www.summitracing.com/parts/spz-36300 get informed on which case and u-joints you will be able to mix 'n match, or you will blow money on getting it all to work. A body 8.75s don't grow on trees and have been prized for decades. You could save money using a different rear. Check into brake setups for this too. Mid 70s stuff swaps over, but again, it's been known for decades and is not sitting in the local yard anymore. You can buy a lot of the parts, but the 'non-wear' stuff like spindles and caliper brackets are tougher. Best to buy all the 'wear' items new anyway. There is for a bodys only, moparts and other sites that have a ton of technical info and probably parts. I don't hang out over there any more.
Thank you carbking so maybe I’ll go with a 625 Carter if I find one for a decent price. I’m not looking to restoration type build hence the items I mentioned above. If I understand correctly I’m looking for 200-250 cfm on the primary side with the rest 375-600 cfm on the secondaries. Dan
Rod I’m aware of the intake manifold, Elderbrock makes an air gap that bolts directly to the magnum, there are clones also, I know the clones have provisions for either LA or magnum heads. Rod thank you from saving me from buying a late model OD trans. I’ll probably go with an S10 or Ranger rear differential as the Mopar stuff is pricey. Some Mopar Freak friends have been running 904s with 500 or about hp, they told me no problem, bring transmission by, buy the kit they recommend and they’ll help, my buddies think I should go manual valve body-We will see - I’m aware of the tight engine for exhaust. I’m thinking fenderwell headers I bought 3, 2left and one right later ABody headers for $35 , I figure I can modify to fit ha-ha. I have a torch, saws all, cut off wheel and a few BFHs, I’ll make something fit. I’m not sure about brakes and suspension, something I’ll upgrade later. For now I’m going to run the 5 on 4 Bp wheels, I’ll probably widen the rears I’m really amazed how much room there is the rear wheel wells the 205/75 r14 s have about 2 inches or so inside and outside. I’ll drill the hubs for 5 on 4 if I can. Thanks Dan
I don't know about Wisconsin, but here on the east coast, I still see Carter 9626S carbs at swap meets fairly often.
I have a 360 in a 66 Valiant with an 833 4 speeed. personely i think a 600 Holley or Carter afb (Edelbrock) will do just fine. I run a 750 double pumper, but was running a 600 vacume secondary when I first installed the 360 and it ran well. The main reason i upsized the carb was I race and run higher then stock 10-1 compression, a 508 lift cam with a 4.56 gear.
I know air gap manifolds are the latest/greatest thing, but I bought a slightly used Performer RPM (SBC) for $45. From what I've read, the air gap is slightly better on the dyno but not enough to feel on the street. I'd keep an open mind if you're on a budget. Gary
Thank you, I’m not stuck on any one thing, looking for options, I also thought about a Oem spread bore manifold and then drilling the heads as I have a good Rochester Quadrajet, Mopar did use some spread bores both Qjets and I believe the thermo quads are spread bore. As far as I know only the air gaps and clones are drilled for magnum heads but not absolutely positive. Dan
Yep, I'm one of those guys that HATES Holleys...never quite got the hang of tuning them. I've run Edelbrock 1406's on my last 4 builds and love them...very similar to the Carter AFB's. Their only drawback to the Edelbrocks is the alloy used in them doesn't like ethanol, and the low-speed idle circuit tends to gum up. But, if you throw a bottle of Star-tron in your gas tank a couple times a year they stay clean.
Headman Hustlers from the Mopar performance catalog circa 1995 for inspiration if you plan to make your own headers.
Cant go wrong with a well built Quadrajet either. I know them better than others and they will perform well. Good mileage and performance if set up right. Sometimes(not well versed on Chrysler products)factory intakes can perform better then aftermarket ones.
Factory carb intakes for magnums are not an option. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_LA_engine Skip down to the magnum section. They were all FI. A bit more detailed info, although I know its was 92, not 93 stated here. (1992 Dodge Dakota with the magnum was a donor for my 1940) https://www.allpar.com/threads/mopar-la-series-v8-engines-318-340-360-and-273.229971
Thanks guys, the only carb manifolds I have found for the magnums are Elderbrock Air Gap and clones. Dan
After talking with a few experts on here I’m going to ditch the fenderwell header idea. Damn I love the looks of fenderwell headers! Thanks to all for PMing or calling me on the exhaust issues. Dan
I'm going to further open that can of worms. I would run an early 70s Thermoquad, the smaller CFM one. It will look right at home and perform well if built right.
TQs are great when they are right. Question is, what's still out there available to make them right? Kits, main bodys, floats, jets? Quick search shows these https://quadrajetparts.com/carter-thermo-quad-carburetor-c-299_158.html https://www.carburetor-parts.com/thermoquad-carburetor-parts I will also mention that they were designed and built to handle underhood temps better, but they have proven not to like high temps, and an early A body making more HP is a hot lil teapot. I've had a couple friends with decent street SBMs in them, and both ran pretty warm.
There is a guy named ??Ken Manley?? that does a lot of TQs. Not much left out there but when they are right, they are right! My son has one on his OT D150 / 318. The slant that came out would heat soak badly and flood in high temps. The TQ never boils over.
I have a holley double pumper on an Airgap on my mopar mill. more cubes but whatever. If you're gonna race it-fine double pumper, but let me tell you something- a double pumper spends a lot of your money when you're cruising. Granted, my previous car was 3850lbs wet, but the 850 on my 414 LA mopar has two 50cc pumps and every stop sign costs a dollar, every stoplight is a dollar, if the speed limit changes from 30 to 45 it costs a dollar. On ramp? Dollar. With regular 35cc pumps in a lighter car, you may only spend 25 to 50 cents each time your foot twitches, but you WILL spend it EACH and EVERY time your foot twitches. I learned to wedge my throttle foot over to the trans hump to hold the gas at whatever position is needed for the speed limit that road has and eventually the car will get there. Vacuum secondaries run better and save money every single time- except for the start of a drag race. -rick
A 904 is a good choice since it uses less hp to turn and you can also swap in a lower gear ratio planetary for first gear. They came from factory that way in the 70s and 80s pickups. You'll get a big boost of giddy up off the line, and the slightly extra drop from the lower first to second wont be a big deal if you're not racing it competitively. Didn't bother me much at all. Plus you keep your 1:1 ratio third gear for the highway. Oh, chuck a shift kit and a 4.2:1 or even 5:1 apply lever in there while you're at it. -rick
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