Champ quick change axle ideas

Abone,

How did that rear end work out with the ring gear mounted backwards?

 

This afternoon a fellow H.A.M.B.er and buddy of mine, JOHNEVANS, called up and brought up the problem you mentioned regarding the outer diameter of the axles versus the inner diameter of the axle bearing. When I was out in the shop looking at a pair of pickup axles and had determined that they were going to be too small in diameter, it didn't occure to me to check the bearing end. That thought hit my at 3:00AM this morning! So, ****, you just confirmed what we were all thinking about. Custom stuff here we come! It's sounding like a 31 spline differential is going to be the easiest way to do this thing after all. Thank you for your reply!

 

The 31 spline will allow you to use more Ford Parts, but the custom axles will let you use the original differential. I'd price it both ways and see what comes out best.

Bruce

 

oops !

 

Yep, just about a minute after I took that pic, I noticed that..... I figured the odds of anyone else catching that were pretty slim..


-Abone.

 

Every time I do that sort of thing it gets caught within minutes! Nice to see someone else on the recieving end...

 

Still looking for 12spline axles. I do not see enough meat on any of my others for a respline. I have a spool (12spl) and a Detroit Locker, I have axles I can run with teh locker to start or would be willing to do some horse trading. Spool is fine for this salt car, preferred in many cases.

 

Ya, unfortunately mine are long gone. I even check yesterday with the guy I gave them to, to see if he might still have them hanging around. He in turn p***ed them to a guy restoring a dirt track car up in Minnesota. If I still had them they would be on the way up to you as a contibution to going fast... ****s.

As I stated before, H.A.M.B.er John Evans called the other day and put a bug in my ear about I.D.s of bearings and such, and last night I spent some time out in my humble dump measureing axles. I came up with the same goose egg you did as well for stuff to respline. But, I did find a couple of things that did make me think that this could be made to work.
On a big bearing Ford truck axle, the outer diameter at the splines isn't going to work as it's too small to spline to the 12 splines 1 3/8" aproximate diameter. The other end is what caught my eye though. The bearing I.D. is right at 1 1/2". That means that an axle could be made without going to special sized bearings to get the job done. I was afraid that the outer diameter at the splines was going to be larger than the I.D at the bearing, therefore requiring elfin magic, or M.C. Escher design skills to fit a bearing on the end. I have a few other axles out there to dig out and measure as possibilites, Sixties Mopar 8 3/4", Ford F1 from about '50 or so too. We might luck out with one or the other and get into somthing resplineable yet... That Mopar axle looks stout!

 

Enjoying this thread. I have a Franklan champ center, two truck bells, the necessary bearing spacer, and a Winters track lock ring carrier. My question is how do I pin the new axle tubes to the old Ford truck bells. Ford used rivets. The new .188" tubes seem mighty thin for threads. Spot welds?

 

That's kinda what I was thinking. I was figuring I would plug weld the old rivet holes and maybe a bead around the tube where it enters the bell.

 

On this one I drilled and tapped the tubes through the old rivet holes, and used nylok jam nuts inside. I tig welded the tube to the bell with silicone bronze. It has original 12 spline flange floater axles. Working fine for over 18,000 mi.

 

put bolt through from the inside. with lock or acorn nuts

 

Most of the aluminum or mag side bells are tapped 3/8 -24. The threads are tapped through both the bells and tubes together. 8 per side will hold them in there.

The after market bells use a shrink fit of about .003". Notice I said shrink, not press. You must heat the bell (chilling the tube helps too.)

Do not exceed 350 degrees F. A kitchen oven works nicely, but your wife may serve you with papers if there is any gear lube in the pores of the metal. A grill will work too. Winters suggests using Vaseline in the bore of the bell. I like anti-sieze.

If you try to cold press the tube in, you will either crack the bell or shave the inside so that there is no interference fit left. Then the bolts have to do all the work. First they will leak, then they will back out or break off and then the tube will rotate in the bell and the u-joint will bind and break.

I KNOW this!!!!

You can use the same procedure for the Ford truck bells, but you can use some extra heat to get enough expansion. If the tubes are already a slip fit in the bells, I would tig them as Marty suggested. If they are a sloppy fit, I would find a way to tighten them up in the bores or you will have
problems later.

 

Thanks. The original Ford axles came out without a lot of drama. So I'm thinking replacements will go in with a little heat and a gentle push. As you noted, my biggest concern is ensuring that the tubes do not work free and rotate.

 

Hello,
I am new to this so it maybe a silly question but, why wont a set of axles out of a 77-79 ford bronco work? I know they are long but the use the big bearing or am I missing something?

 

The problem here is with the differential side gears. The 'old' Ford 3/4 ton pick ups and circle track differentials used 12 spline axle shafts that measure 1.375" in diameter. This end will not fit through a typical Ford 9" axle bearng. There are larger I.D. bearings available but 12 spline axles that use push in bearings are custom only.

Nothing here that money can't fix!

Just no real cheap way to put it all together.

31 spline side gears for the '39 - '52 Ford 3/4 ton differentials may exist. Who knows this?

 

Can you explain the bearing spacer? I'm planning on using the 3/4 ton axles...one other question is the rear end for a 1 ton the same as a 3/4 ton

 

This info is just what i was looking for , thanks.

 

Bump for more info on this please!

 

In days of old, quick changes used two bells from a 3/4 ton Ford truck (circa 1939-52). I don't remember which side the originals were on. But you needed two rear ends to make a quick change. Since the bearing pocket depth was too great on the left side, a spacer was used to take up the clearance.

I can't post a picture right now 'cause my camera needs a battery, which apparently has to me made to order.

The 3/4 ton one ton question will have to be ansered by someone else.

 

These are shots of a 39-41 Ford 3/4 ton rear axle, I think this is the unit that spawned the champ quick change along with the wide '5' floater hubs used on everything from Hardtops, Modifieds,Stock Cars, and the Dirt Late Models racing today.

 

Thanx Marty,

If a picture is worth 1000 words, you just said a mouthful.

BTW my new battery arrived today and the damn camera still won't work. Made in China with an American name on it. Can you say, "Kodak"?

Do you hapen to have the bearing spacer being asked about. I'm holding mine up to the screen as I type, but it isn't showing up in my post.

 

Any body ever figure out 31 or 28 spline side gears?

 

Bruce, I do not have that bearing spacer, It would be nice to have one to measure.

 

Bruce,

I'm staying true to the original and building an early quickie with the truck bells.
Whenever you get a chance, please post pictures of whatever you have on the subject, and some measurements would be invaluable. Thanks much!

 

I also used the truck carrier with 12 spline side gears. My rear is only 48" wheel flange to wheel flange so I used 9" ford axle tubes spot welded and bolted to the cast bells. 31 spline axles have a fat diameter of about 1.5" and I had them re splined to fit the carrier.
search 'quick change option' and see the write up I did

 

I found some adapters on ebay some time back. Used 1936 ford p***inger car axle housings. A 31 spline gold track diff weld 9" axle ends on 36 housings. Used stock ford pickup axles with the 31 spline i got from the pick apart

 

Hey guys, just read this thread. I built my Winters Q.C. Using my old dirt late rear end. I had a four rib aluminum tube, mag center with a spool. Change tubes to steel GN style. Bought GN snouts and 3/16 wall tube. I machined the one tube for the Qc-300 spool seal. Then machined tubes to length using the Winters specs. Roset welded the snouts after pressing together into tubes then heated the 6 rib bells ( bought those ) in the oven, then ***embled the bells and tubes together. Drilling and tapping for 3/8 x 24 bolts in the bells. After all that found some 4-3/4 winters GN floater hubs that had 5/8 fine screw in studs. Removed studs and carefully stepped drilled up to recommended size for the knurl of Moroso's 1/2 x 20 studs ( can't remember the drill size...43/64ths I think ). That worked great! Had to grind a relief on one side of stud end to clear hub when pressed in. Found a gold track diff on EBay 150 bucks! I think I've got less than 400 bucks in all that.... More time than money!....just gotta measure axle lengths...