i do body work for a living. so everyone i know, knows it. how do you go about charging your buddies or club memebers. i mean you want to give them a break but at the same time my (your) family can't live on that. so what do you guys do about charging them without chaseing them away. i know if there your buddies they should pay you for what your worth. when you give them prices like an actual customer they flip out. they almost expect to get things for free and in a hurry. what have you guys done?
if you do it to feed your family, everyone pays full price. Your pals will (should) understand. If not, fuck em... get a paying customer in that slot!
Working for friends and family is a bad situation. You're damned if you do and damned if you don't. ALWAYS a pain in the ass. When I owned my pub, I set family/friend discount and stuck to it, and everyone got treated like every other client. No freebies, no line jumping. If they didn't like it or understand it, they could go elsewhere. It's a business, not a hobby.
Let me respond to this! I fully agree with Dante. I am going to get my work done by him in the near future and never bitched about the $ that he charges per hour. A man has to provide for his family and a 12 pack of bud does not do it! The good 'ol days of that are gone. So out of respect, if he gives ya a price on some work, go with it. Shop around people, yer getting a great deal from him and look at his work! It speaks highly on it's own! Just looking out for a fellow HAMB'r and friend to boot! KNUX! Ya know, I never offered him a case of beer? Hmmmmmmmmm.......................jj!
Come up w/ a "friends" discount you feel comfortable with and stick to it w/ all of your friends. If it's 20% off for Freaky Fred it's 20% off for Filthy Flow too. My uncle back east would cut deals if people helped w/ prep. and blocking. I always thought that was kind of cool. Finally, there's the old barter-o-matic. I'll trade polishing for other types of labor I'm not skilled at. This is fine if you have few skilled friends and they're willing to work around your schedule.
I look at it this-a-ways, if you have a friend who will do the work and he does good work, what I am buying is the peace of mind that he will be consciencious about his craft, whatever it is. Full price is no problem when it comes to peace of mind.
Is this in a way a post to tell those said friends (that are probably on this board) you need to charge them like everyone else. Very clever this way they'll look like the dicks for not wanting to pay.
I have the perfect solution. Have yer friends pay yer rent and yer billz and all the family expenses and have them throw ya in a case of bud or whatever yer preference is on that day and call it even! I am sure that that would work out for ya and they would be getting awesome work too! KNUX! Seriously folks. If he could he would but he can't so he won't. Ya get it? The man has to make a livin at what he does. KNUX!
If you have a hourly rate drop it a little bit obviously you have overhead to pay. At the shop i run our hourly rate is $75.00 and hour, for friends its $60.00 an hour depending on the type of work and i usually dont charge for small materials that DO add up. If its a small job i will charge per hour but if its a few days work i can afford to take off a couple hundred bucks off the total bill sometimes. On parts that we sell i only mark stuff up 10% for friends which isnt much considering the time it takes to order the part and do paperwork etc. I have a few friends that have told me that they will bring there car in on this day blah blah blah and never show up, they also wonder why i wont order parts with out a deposit for being such a good friend. The people that do this to you dont understand how a business is run. You need to ask them one question. Do you work for free?
I've had similar problems in the past.I work with 12volts(audio, video, security, electrical), and I always had problems with what to charge people.This made me really leary about doing side work, It ended up that it wasn't worth my time, so for a long time I didn't even bother. Now, first off, I live in Vegas, and there is always something to trade labor for.There is a pretty good "barter" system down here if you know how to work it. I've also learned to be selective about who I do work for, or who I tell that I do side work.Most of the people that I do work for know that my time isn't cheap, and pay me accordingly.I tell them to pay me " whatever they think it's worth".They also know that I stand behind my work, and they see that I do a good clean job. So, chances are, if I'm doing some installs for somebody, I'm getting paid pretty well, or I'm getting something that I want in return.I hardly ever pay for drinks, and seldom do I ever pay cover charges. Vegas is all about, who you know.
free? nothing is absolutely free. specifically, people who have done me right in the past get good treatment. friends who rarely come thru for anything get charged in full... and that philosophy goes for anything, not just work. for little stuff i wouldnt charge anything ... ie. tips, tricks and hands on suggestions. you need to make it very clear that this is your business and the means by which you pay the bills... like killer said, if they dont understand it... fuck 'em
Charge the bastards full price for quality work...or work 30 hour weekends doing crappy, unappreciated work for free...and then go home in a mess so you can fight with your wife/girlfriend about how your never around for your family. ask me how I know.... Trade workers have no friends...only customers.
Just some perspective from the other side. I do think you should give family and close friends a little break, but also with the understanding that full rate work comes first because you have a reputation and schedule to meet in the general public (your friends and family should understand this and already know your rep). Your friends and family can be some of your best advertising you have, so a little break could pay bigger dividends later. Also, your friends may feel compelled to go to you anyway, so as not to offend you, even if you are higher in price or not the best for the job, etc. It can make it awkward for them too. I've had a buddy that does paint work that is always begging me to paint my vehicles, but so far I haven't had him do it since his work is nicer than my needs. I will in the future for the right car, but not for something I'm just going to off load in a month or two anyway. If you give your family and friends a break, just be sure they don't blab your buddy rate to others.
Bartering and swapping work is the best way to handle it. If it's a big job that can't be traded fairly, then either a combination of money and work or just the full price of the work will do. If they don't meet the handshake deal.... then you just thought they were your friends. read line below..
My buddy does body work and i allways use his shop. I dont dicker with the price At all cause with out asking i get a very good hook up. They have people that come in all the time aksing for freebie work but Thats not how it works. If he ever has something he needs me to do he gets the same tretment i get from them. And the deals are get are great! full paint job and 12hours (book time) of body filler work with all sikkens paint and three coats of clear. all this for 2300 bucks on my moms 67 camaro. Other shops wanted 5g+ So tell your buddys to shop around and look at what other work is comming outa these "cheeper" shops. You can have it done two of three ways Fast cheep good
Give the friends to big a break and it'll really hurt when you'll be hearing about how much they made when they flipped the car you did for them. They'll also bing you so much work that you won't have time for profitable work. The nice things you can do are giving them a minor discount, bartering for their skilled services, and teaching (letting them work along side you). Add to that eating small favours, there are always some little jobs that really are worth a case of beer. My dad is/was a bodyman painter and in the 40+ years I've known him the question you raised at the top of this thread has always been an issue. Some friends and family will treat you right, some you'll only ever work for once. Unfortunately experience is the only way to find out who's who. So always make sure you're not cutting your own throat to save theirs. One trick dad uses when he's giving away labour is to charge materials somewhere between what he payed and retail. You make the call based on who your dealing with. mike
I can't imagine charging a TRUE friend for labor. I'm not talking aquaintenances now, I'm talking friends.
When I did the body work on my first car years ago (granted, i still suck at it) I had a buddy who did it for a living. He gave me a corner of the shop ( I always bought the lunch) and let me borrow the tools. He would instruct me on what to do but he didnt do it for me. He gave me a list of the consumables I would need like sand paper, primer ect. that I bought, and looked over my shoulder as I worked so I did a good job. Now that I am older I appreciate his willingness to help and that he made me do it on my own then if he would have just done it for me. 90% of bodywork requires very little skill. It's that 10% that always bites you in the ass. So help him out with the 10% and instruct him how to do the rest.
Words to live by........When it comes to doing work that ultimately feeds your family, then feed your family. A true friend will come over and help ya mow your lawn, roof your house, and bail ya out of a jam but, never take food out of your families mouth. You can really burn yourself out of something you love to do by giving hardwork away. It's got to be YOUR choice to trade or give away good work for whatever reason. I can see trading custom bodywork for a say, a custom interior or a killer engine rebuild. You can also give a club member a good break without breaking your bank. In the past I've given away a ton of high quality work in my prime to friends and club members, only to have certain guys forget about me when it came time for their expertise in what they specialized in. I mis-judged too many people.The ultimate burn was not getting the lettering jobs on signs and trucks for guys that I was long time friends with who built successful businesses as we all grew. Remember: A good deal is only when it's interesting to both parties. Joel
Oh ya, If a "friend" wants all his stuff done and gives you the OK, make sure you have them sign a reciept of some sort listing the work and everything. I may sound like a dick but have you ever had someone come to get there vehicle and say ill pay you later and it becomes a chore to get the money? I also dont do trades. I will pay you for your work and you pay me for mine that way noone is out. There is also different types of friends. We all have friends but there are those that you will do anything for, and they would do the same for them and then there are the ones that only come around when they need stuff done and those are the ones im refering to.
i NEVER do work for CLOSE friends for pay, and NEVER during regular business hours. if they want a break (a very small one) tell them you'll do it at YOUR convenience when you dont have full-paying customer work to do. being the busy guy that you are, the problem solves itself.
buddies is buddies....business is business the group i hang with all know this. and it makes things a lot easier, on everybody
now we are getting into philosophy... everyones going to be different. in the end it really depends on YOU. im not a hardass... i give freebies, you know that (not just with car parts).... and so far its paid off. only you know who deserves prefered treatment.
Hey Dante, you have a family to feed and keep. You can charge me full boat and remain my pal. Your work justifies it, IMO. Chili, who still wants the bodywork but is BROKE.
If your friend was a plumber you wouldn't expect him to come do a ground run and finish on your new house construction for nothing. Just because that what his expertise/job was. Nor should friends expect that of you, charge for your time and material or barter. It keeps everyone happy.
WORDS TO LIVE BY: YOU HAVE TO LEARN HOW TO CHARGE YOUR FRIENDS BECAUSE YOUR ENEMIES WON'T BUY FROM YOU IN THE FIRST PLACE ! It might feel harsh but, you HAVE to charge them. If they start acting like - Hey don't I get a discount? You just need to stand your ground. And you could also start giving them the - hey what are you, a fuggin' mooch? - routine. Go out and find the business owners in your area that have gone out of business or are going out of business soon, and ask them if they give discounts to their friends/family. I will bet you anything the answer is yes. When it is your friends you tend to discount that "hit" that you are taking as a favor. But in terms of business - it's just like letting your business account bleed and not even attempting to find the wound..... Gracie no offence - but you're out of your mind if you think this guy should work his ass off for free. I helped my dad do body work all year last year. And when word gets out that someone (even family) gets a good "deal" - they come out of the fucking woodwork looking for the handouts. In other forms of business it might not be as big a deal. But for a bodyman who has to work his fingers to the goddamn bone - even if he IS making good profit - it sucks.... If you feel like you really want to "help them out" you could do what Ichoptop suggested......after a week or two, they'll quit and beg you to do it for some price. It's a dirty, thankless job that noone wants to do. If they really are your friends - they'll gladly help you out by paying or doing their %90 of the work.........
Hey, if you do it for a living and it's done during normal working hours to put bread on the table, your friends should pay....it would cost them to go somewhere else. If they bring you this stuff just because your free...maybe they arent your frinds. We dont have much problem with that...everybody seems to pitch in to help each other out around here.
Hey BRO!!! Can I bring my ROADSTER BODY by tomarrow and have you make it all TIGHT and shit?!! I bring you some BEERs...
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