Built this in '61 when I was 17. Kept tract of the money spent with a little notebook ,as you see it $350. Drove it in primer for a couple of months before paint,interior wasn't much but no army blankets.
I believe the terminology for a badly engineered,cobbled together vehicle at the time was a,"Shot Rod";a very derogatory term.These were usually ***embled by people with questionable talents and very little knowledge.They were the primary reason that the term,"Hot Rod" was a much maligned term as well. There were many people who did most or all of the work on their own cars and had enough sense to enlist the services of others capable of performing the work they themselves were incapable of doing properly.These same people also worked to upgrade the public's image of hot rodders by forming car clubs and working with the local authorities. The."shot rodders" rarely did this;instead working in the exact opposite direction. There were also people who;while as enthusiastic as the next guy about hot rods,possessed neither the time or the ability to construct their own vehicles;relying instead on having a shop perform the majority of the work.They were also for the most part inclined to promote the sport rather than demean it. It is through these people's efforts that we are blessed(or cursed as you may see it)with the wide range of available parts and even whole(turn key)cars.My take on it is:I embrace all those who are true enthusiasts of the sport regardless of their wealth or lack thereof.They all contribute to the betterment of it.
Shoot me if I'm wrong, but maybe what was going on in SoCal (Chili Phil's backyard) in the 40's to the early 50's, and certainly prior to the advent of Hot Rod magazine in 1948, was not quite the same as in other parts of the country. This factor alone could influence opinions and memories.
Cheap and slobby are two different things. ARe you saying/thinking a HotRod can't be built out of used tubing for the rails? Or a 10 dollar swapmeet radiator? Or maybe everybody has to spend 7K on a flathead, just to keep up? I for one think you're way, way, way offbase. You build something with what you have, if that means I s**** out a trailer to use the iron for the frame rails, instead of paying for a set, who the **** are you to say it's not a hotrod becoause I'm being cheap? Piss off.
What I can't take is the lack of pride in a build. The purposeful build of a car that looks like **** and an insult to all of rodding's forefathers. To take a salvageable body and desecrate it then ad junk on and to it just to have an in your face at***ude burns my *** big time. Then to say, this is the way it was?????????? WTF? Using the over used expression of, "Back in the day" it might be true that the body work was left for last but, no one drove a car without a floor or drive shaft cover. They were made to run, then run faster. They made sure they could stop, it was the only car they had. Then came the body work as they kept improving on making the car faster and better looking. Nothing like this Rat Rod **** we see so much of today. Garbage, trash, plain and simple. The only reason my first build was primered was because I ran out of white paint! And couldn't get the exact same code. So I primered the whole car over. Sorry, rant over. Let the slamming begin.
" Hot rods have always been an expensive hobby. " Yes, if they were shop built by Barris, etc. such as the cars you mentioned. Everything is expensive if you're directing someone else to build it for you. In the early days there were not many shops to begin with, save for a few hot beds such as LA, etc. Most guys did their own work or had buddies help out. Some guys decided to put their $ into speed rather than paint. There are plenty of milestone hot rods that were built mostly by their owners on tight budgets. For example the Bill Niekamp roadster; a $15 model A body, scrounged Es*** rails, etc. He had less than $2,000 into it. http://auto.howstuffworks.com/niekamp-roadster-hot-rod.htm Wonder what the total cost was on the average largely owner built "finished" (painted and upholstered) hot rod was back in the day?
The examples Chili Phil cites are top of the pile. There will always be a top of the pile, a middle of the road and a bottom of the pile. There was then and there is now, so the point of this thread would be ???
HOT RODS & Race Cars have always been hand in hand. ( Go Jobs ) was pre Hot Rod. Race cars Have ALWAYS been expensive. The early-est Members of the Hot Rod movement were guys who wanted to go as FAST as they could - but could not BUY a new Miller Or Offy Or Duessy. Needs to be Said again - ( TO GO AS FAST ) As they could. - ( not to just LOOK like anything ) I Am SURE there were plenty of POS built in the day - I would also bet not to many of these ran for long, if at all - I also think Knowbody REALLY WANTED a Hot Rod that looked like **** on wheels. I have aways said & always will, ( Do the BEST you Can with the RESORCES you have ) and your good with me. AND, It ain't Spose'd to be EASY.
If its something you truly love then you will make huge sacrifices to get it. My buddy while we were in the Navy spent a whole cruse on ship didn't spend a dime didn't go off the boat once and spent 5 months after eating anything that was under 3 bucks a meal sleeping on my shop floor so that he could buy a brookville 31 roadster a duce frame olds rocket and everything he would need to build his dream car. Bums have lived better than he did. I love hot rods but I honestly dont think I could have done what he did.
My point, Weasel? It is a twenty first century idea to emulate the bottom of the pile. Sure, there were **** cars in the mid fifties to early sixties. But they weren't racers or hot rods. The drag strips had rules and the street had laws enforced by cops. My current Olds is lower and louder than I would have got away with then. But the day IS COMING where we'll all get h***led like I did then. That was that bad part of the Good Old Days. The ratz will bring them back. My second point would be that, unless I am incorrect, we should be talking about the traditional style. Look at the Boss's blogs. See any shot rods there? Nope. 3Mike6, cheap or slobby isn't relevent. The difference between cheap and inexpensive is. Cheap is ****. Inexpensive is simply a good deal. If you want to build your stuff with old used bed frames, you're cheap. I don't know what you have. Maybe it's real nice. Maybe it's not. But, I know how it was, because I was there. So, I'll take your advice and piss off. Now run along and go **** in your hat.
No...goldchainers aren't the "real" Hot Rodders. Neither are the Joads of the world. As with all in the pursuit of material things, first comes desire. But then you factor in the SKILLS required to make your desires real. Here it gets interesting.... IF you have the desire AND a good bankroll, you PAY someone to use their SKILLS to build you a Hot Rod so you can ACT like you know a thing or two while you look down your nose at the unworthy rabble. (Goldchainer.) The thing is...All the cold, hard cash in the world doesn't buy you SKILL...just access to it. If you have both money AND skill....then your truly living the dream.
Goldchainers... I think costumes deserve their own thread. I see many posts critical of guys in Hawiian shirts. Like black T-shirts, chain drive wallets and pomade isn't another costume? Think about it.
Look up the HAMB handle "Do Not Delete", those are my original posts pre my leaving the HAMB over a dispute over the fact that I did not believe you can build a "quality traditional hot rod" for less than 5 thousand dollars. I will say I was irrational about this to a degree, but still believe it cannot be done if you use good safe parts and plan to legally drive the car any great distance. Just the stuff you end up getting at the auto parts store ends up being at least a couple grand- plus: Body Frame Front End Rearend Engine & Trans Steering Gauges Wheels & Tires Fuel Tank Radiator Still do the math- and without 75% freebies it's gonna be over 5K.
You are completely and totally wrong. In fact, I think you are simply seeking out those that emulate the bottom, because you are wanting the world to see your contempt for "rat rods" or whatever... Bolt for bolt, the cars built today are way nicer than the cars built in the day... on average... I'm so tired of the "rat rod" thing... Preaching to the choir. Beating a super dead ****ing horse. BORING.
All I will say is a chopped running/driving 49-51 Merc 2 dr WITH new solid metal can be done for $3k. Know where to look, find it, GRAB IT...and dont ***** about the 3 4x8' sheets of 18 gauge metal it takes to make it whole again. And that really isn't cutting corners, just not farming anything out. Back to rat rod hating...
All depends on how you finesse it. Reselling extras into the car fund, using salvage yard parts, getting a score on the original vehicle, doing all the labor yourself, it may not be the prettiest car and it won't be a '32-'34 Ford, but you can have something done and safe for not a lot of money if you have the talent to stretch out your dollars just as well as to build the car. Probably subject somewhat to where you live, too. But you might be surprised at some of the really good stuff I have not very much money into.
Jim. Love your posts and have talked to you via PM, but BS. My friend and I will post a 51 Merc buildup in the future (year or so) that should yield a safe, driveable chopped 51 2 dr in or around the $3500 area. It's not so much waiting for handouts as not being lazy. Unless you are talking hot rods, A's, T's, B's. At that point, I am clueless. I dont know anything about hot rods.
Those three cars you mentioned were cool....... but are you saying that only hi-dollar cars that were in magazine are real hot rods? Cause I think the guy that built his rod, drove his rod and had fun........ just for himself, not for the accollades is the REAL hot rodder, and his car was the REAL hot rod.
I just don't understand why all old cars aren't cool to all of you. We have a local cruise where it is not uncommon to have over 100 cars show up. What's neat about the cruise is that you never know what you are going to see there. Harris will attest to the diversity of the Maryville cruise. On any given night there will be a dozen 55-57 chevies, several original 20's and 30's cars, a couple of dozen street rods of all types done up in every style, cool pick-ups from the 20's through the 60's, some cl***ic vettes, dozens of muscle cars of every type, the half dozen ricers, always a few mini cars like Crosleys and stuff. Then there are the wierd things like the antique tractors that drive up, the green MGB with the small block Cobra engine that is immaculate, the 57 Olds with the original paint, the new Lamborgini, the 65 Mercedes coupe, A VW model that I've never seen from south america, 2 or 3 g***ers, a blown big block Ranchero, a pro-street falcon, a mint custom 61 skyliner etc. What's neat about these cruises is that everyone there loves cars, period. No fights no harsh words between the ricers and the rodders, etc. Everyone just hangs out and has a good time. So, what's wrong with that?? Oh, and each one of you would be welcome in whatever you drove.
Well, I said "traditional hot rod" and that could be stretched a little here and there- but can't mean the cowl of a '27 Whatever and some plywood, or a Merc that I wouldn't call a "traditional hot rod". Looks like the debate will still rage. But plenty of magazines stories have tried it with a few old and new parts and it never pencils out- many friends with plenty of skill and parts stashes have tried too- and without coming up with some kind of swapmeet pile reject- they haven't hit below the mark or anywhere near it. The argument that you can buy and sell your way into a cheap car doesn't float with me either. Just write up what you paid for the parts- not subtracting the profit from a few good buys- and then if you worked AT ALL on improving those parts before selling them that's labor as well. Why do people have to try to make this a cheap hobby- it's not- never was and never will be.
I have a 1958 Honest Charley catalog ( for you younger guys ... Honest Charley was a lot like Summit Racing or Jegs today ) Honest Charley was the number one choice for parts by most of the racers and Moonshine haulers here in the South. A Isky cam BL#2 for a SBC was $125 list and $93.75 jobber net. The entire Cam and kit was $180 list or $135.95 jobber net. A Edelbrock intake ( 3X2 ) was $74.50. J&E pistons for the little SBC were $110 a set ( no rings ) A set of Edelbrock flathead heads were $87.50 ... Offenhauser was a few dollars higher ... across the board but a brand new Stromberg #97 was $23.50 This was pretty serious cash in 1958. So much for speed being cheap back then ...
OKay, I must have taken your words out of context...when you said/typed "Cheap", I didn't realize you did NOT mean inexpensive...i/e you were talking about some high dollar cars at the time...so natuarally I equated cheap to be inexpensive, but...I now see what you're talking about, and now will retract my "piss off" remark. But regardless, I can't **** in my hat, cause it's my Cowboys hat with the little star on front...and until I see'em get 4 games behind without Romo over the next month...I still have to wear it. Now, very well in 4 weeks, I'll **** in it, but defintely not tonight.
You say that, but somewhere in California is a kid with nothing else to do but read a ******* contest. Hot rods are cool. Some cost alot. Others don't. There..
We are all supposed to be into "traditional" right. That means old school to me. Now my grandpa and grandma could have ripped there first one off in one of these traditional rods for all I know(I know they didn't). My point is they were very cheap. They grew up in the depression. The people who built the cars this board loves the most didn't have the equipment, parts selection, and technology we have today. They were smart though and figgured out how to get it done and still feed Beaver, keep L***ie around, and still give June enough money to buy a dress for every day of the week. The parts we want now to build cars like they built are rare and hard to find. Back in the day they were at the salvage yards, or about like buying a blower, intake, or cam for a Chevy smallblock today. You can't compare. And ratrods? They I'm sure were'nt uncommon. I've stumbled upon old rods here in farm country that makes me shake my head in wonder just like the ratrods of today. As far as cost today. Today we want it and we want it now. I remember growing up it would take my Dad a number of years to build a car collecting parts along the way. Today it's about getting it done fast. Fast costs more people. Me? I trickle money into my cars when it's there. I don't keep track so I couldn't tell you how much in the end. I don't even want to know. Besides, if I knew then my wife might find out. Jeff
awrightythen phili... i'm not sure how this little diatribe is going to play out so just bear with my stream of consciousness.... i guess cheap and finished are comparative and relative. as is the 'ERA' we're talking about. its not an apples to apples comparison. you really cant compare a guy coming home from the war and slapping a jalopy together for the lakes (figuring it out as they go, and yes...using what they could pull out of fields and barns) with a guy in 1955 building up a finished deuce roadster (got it dialed and taking it to the next level with stuff the mainstreamers had discarded plus the advent of new technology), to a guy in 2008 trying to build a period AND gennie deuce roadster (or a 'modern' car..still bucks up). things today are by all rights more expensive based on numerous factors...not the least of which being inflation. i still remember my dad telling me stories of how he got his first car (40 ford, around 1955) by sweeping floors at the owner's shop. then the stories of the 25 dollar RUNNING model A coupe. and on and on....that was when a model A was a throw away vehicle. people still had them lying around, some still drove them, many discarded them, and my dad was fixing them in shop as a teenager. they were the equivelant of the honda civic (can you see where i'm going friend?) in the beginning, guys used what was cheap to build hot rods. some guys who were bucks up made use of what was new(er), but for the most part, they were cheapies...to start...but eventually you gotta pony up to make the grade. records and trophies are chased with dollars. lets remember that this was a time when basically anyone who was willing to get up and go to work could afford to buy a home. you could still scrounge the junkyards-o-plenty and find 59 AB's and 39 top loaders...c'mon...fer crying out loud you could build a top fuel dragster with junkyard parts and a gas rig...guys who really wanted to go 'top shelf' and had jobs and the right set of priorites (hirohata, nitti, niekamp, etc...) could and did, but just like today, were the exception to the rule. from what i understand there were plenty of mediocre driver rods around then too...its just that there was a differnt standard of acceptance (out here in LA anyway). Having anything nice is never cheap. years wear on and the stuff that is desireable gets more expensive, hell... even the stuff nobody wants is expensive nowadays. but you can still buy a little klunker honda and do the EQUIVELANT of what the early pioneers were doing on the CHEAP. where i agree that full blown (modern) traditional rodding is not cheap, i think its a far cry from doing it when it was.
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