Here's how I'm going to try to make it to the HAMB drags. Doing everything I want to do with the Merc just can't happen in time. I have a later 8BA that I drug home a while ago. Mostly complete, spins free, and no signs of major drama. It looks cleanISH inside. Waterpumps have been pulled off. Fuel pump and tower are gone - pump rod is still there - and the distributor was pulled. Waterpumps can be swapped and anything else can be robbed from the Merc if I need it. A good compromise between QUICK and DIRTY and the right way is what I'm after. Would you bother rebuilding the mechanical pump or just block it off and go electric? Oil filter - mess with re-running the lines or just plug the holes and go? You can't spin up the oil pump with a drill in this motor...how do you prime it? The idea is this: 1) Get a motor in my car and get it to the drags. 2) Keep the Merc OUT of my car so I don't ruin it AND...can build a proper early motor with the good stuff scavenged from the Merc. A REAL rebuild with a cam, port work, etc. Rocky - what DIDN'T you do to the motor in the '33?
Here's what I'm doing to an "as-found" engine in clean condition. Put in a new oil pump, had Jere Jobe rebuild the crab distributor, gonna rebuild the 97's myself, put it in the car and go. I have no idea how many miles are on it or the condition of the cylinders, but there wasn't too much sludge in it and the one main cap I pulled off showed a nice bearing. Can't prime the pump by turning the engine without having the dry bearings scrape. Have heard of running a pressurized feed of outside oil to the rear boss and lubricating "backwards". I think I'm just gonna turn it over a few times with the coil wire off though. Not sure if I'm gonna run a filter yet or not. alchemy
Quicky prime: Line up your oil cans. Rig your IV setup--the oil filter can hooked to one of its own lines running to port at back of block. Study "MASH" for details. Fill can with oil, let it infiltrate engine from your gallery tap. Keep filling until all needed oil has dripped through. Go. My experience has been essentially instant oil pressure on startup using this system. On the engine itself, make sure all valves go up and down--they tend to run dry and stick after prolonged sitting. Use some Marvel in both gas and oil, as it has an excellent reputation for unsticking elderly machines. What Carb does this have?? Stock distributor?
If all moves properly, I would do a quick compression test--it's a waste of time to install it if it's not really pumping due to encrudulated valve seats or rings, and there's really no easier way to see if valves are really seating and cylinders*****ing in and holding the air. Since engine is likely dry, there are problems here--you don't want to test it with rings and such dry, you don't want to do it with everything oil soaked because that will give you artificially good sealing. My improv would be to thoroughly oil rings&walls with MM oil or something else thin, shoot a bit of the same down each valve stem, crankitover a few times, and let it drain down overnight before testing. Zero cylinders may just need a few whacks to a sticking valve, but low readings might well mean the engine isn't pumping well due to rust/crud on valve seats.
So I'm just filling it through the back of the block and it runs through most of the needed places and then into the pan? It will be running a 94 robbed from the Merc. Stock distributor robbed from the same. I'll check the valves and find TDC tonight...could I be lucky enough to find head gaskets at Napa? Maybe I'll get to fire the beast this weekend. I wonder how fast the Fire Department will show up once the smoke starts? dusty gave me the coolest flathead test stand around - even if it was made by the French.
" I'm just filling it through the back of the block and it runs through most of the needed places and then into the pan?" One devoutly hopes so. Without a pressurized device there's no way to be sure, but I get pressure on first crank and immediate full pressure on fireup doing this.
[ QUOTE ] ...could I be lucky enough to find head gaskets at Napa? [/ QUOTE ] I would****ume you have pulled the heads already then? If so, it might be a good idea to get a suction cup and some lapping compound and lap the valves. It did wonders on the flathead 4-cyl in my forklift. If you havn't pulled the heads yet, I would do as Bruce suggested with the MM, check compression and leave it together. Don't fix anything that doesn't need fixing. Neal
I haven't pulled the heads...but I didn't pay much attention. I'm thinking they had been pulled and just bolted back securely before I got it? Details from when I picked it up are foggy and I haven't taken a good long close look at this motor yet. Just wheeled it out of the corner and popped off the intake to see what was in the valley. And this idea hit me later. So listen, this business with the suction cup and lapping compound is exactly what I want to avoid. What, next you're going to be telling me a good idea to go ahead and just drop the pan and scrape the crud out, maybe clean the screen? Oh well, might as well replace the pump then...hmmm wonder how these mains look? Maybe I'll just wack the top of each valve with a rock?
[ QUOTE ] NAPA has some new FelPros that are the modern blue teflon stuff. I don't have the numbers yet. [/ QUOTE ] Bruce - Are these really available? I remember this discussion on Fordbarn several months back & someone finally called Fel-Pro & they said they didn't have 'em. Never kept up with it after that, so don't know what's happened in the recent past...
One of the local V8 club members brought in a 59A set to a meeting--I held them in my hands--only****uming late ones are available too. I took down the number but can't find it. I'll trackitdown and post the number for 59's.
I would recommend the valve lapping on a stored engine in any case except this--a flathead with a deadline! That's why I suggested compression test to get a feel for sealing in there. If someone is doing his very first flathead valve job, he is definitely going to be spending the wholedamnrestofthesummer finding strange tools, breaking parts, learning new profanity, getting fingers sewn back on, etc. It may turn out to be necessary, but in this case I would test compression first and hope for evidence of good seats. If it's an 8BA with the good hard seats, there's a good chance here. A late one with the soft seats is more likely to need serious work. On the rock, definitely yes, actually! I would rotate the engine and eyeball seats as closely as possible to check for rust, crud, or any pitting that might force real work. If seats seem pretty good, it's Okie valve job time! Official procedure: Make sure that valve is closed. Thonk! Repeat 16 times. Brush gravel off headgasket, screwitbacktogether, head on toward promised land...
Grimlock--eyeball the bottom of distributor shaft area on your front cover. Is your cover set for the long shaft extending an inch or so beyond gear or the short that ends at the gear?
Update - Dragged the motor to the middle of the floor and pulled the intake back off. Head bolts were only snug, so I pulled the heads and found a bent valve...really bent. Also found a valve on the opposite bank that had gone right through the top of a lifter. I have the third and final 8BA that I'm going to try next. It's a little more crusty and there's a small rodent nest in the valley but I've seen it with the heads off and it's actually in better shape than last night's motor. Update with pictures tomorrow. Clutch disk was solved last night too by the way. Took about five to ten minutes of deburring with some jeweler's files. So what's the trick to getting the late valve****embly out? I went after the bent one with a pickle fork and pliers and couldn't get the retainer to budge. Unbent valves had similar results.
If guides don't want to move, use fork backwards to compress spring upwards, remove spring retainer, yank valve out top and drive the guide down. Look for a longer discussion of this from a couple of days ago. If you're going this far and you have 16 decent seats and can pull together 16 usable valves, you can easily and quickly do a simple lapping job. Be careful on interchange--there are two flavors of late flatty valve with different springs and retainers, and you must transplant any mismatched valves with their proper hardware. If this project looks like it may fly, I'll lend a good 94, Mallory, and cam so your car doesn't sound like a stocker...
I THINK the two dirty flatheads have the short shaft front cover, and the Merc has one set up for a long shaft. And like I said, I'm not above robbing a piece here and there to get going. If everything goes as planned the Merc will be pretty picked over anyway. Edit: I'll know more tomorrow obviously...you're pretty insistant on this cam thing huh?
Some Felpro numbers for 8BA--Does anyone know what those designations mean? Are any of these lilely to be the new ones?? http://www.pickproparts.com/PartsList.aspx?AAIASubCategoryID=5412 and 59A: http://www.pickproparts.com/PartsList.aspx?AAIASubCategoryID=5412 On the 59, the ones with small round holes are the ones to use--the big holes are original type for 99A, and Ford claimed cooling benefits for these engines by redrilling a couple of center haoles and using the small hole postwar gaskets.
an engine that has been sitting a long time WILL have valve springs that have been compressed for so long that they will NOT return to full height or strength. It may run---gently. It cant run properly with out good valve springs. Many old motors will perform well if a minimum is done. The minimum includes new rings, gaskets, seals, bearings, and honing cylinders and lapping the valves/seats.
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