Projects Chevy 261 vs Buick Nailhead

I've had a solid plan for my '48 Chevy coupe since I bought it a few years ago. Very cl***y, early-mid 50s custom... with a hopped up 261. Plans can change. I'm years away from starting work on it (gotta finish the Econoline, then my wife's Morris is on deck), but it's never too early to start thinking and sourcing parts.

Right now I have a '58 261 inline six with everything I need to bore and stroke it to a 290ci as well as other hop up parts, like a Tattersfield 2x1 intake, rebuilt Carter W-1 carbs, "race" head, vintage dual point dizzy, and Wayne covers. All I need is some rare pistons (which I hear I can only get from Egge now). This plan will require a lot of machine shop work (i.e., a lot of money) and some other new internals.

On the other hand...

I've always liked nailheads for their power and dress-up potential. A really nice one that just sold in the cl***ifieds recently got me thinking about using one instead.

It seems like I'd spend less on a nice running nailhead than I would rebuilding my 261, but I'm not sure how that would balance out after getting the intake, dress up parts and adapter for a manual trans. Those seem pretty pricey for the Nailhead, especially if I try to keep everything mid-50s. Of course, I could always sell my 261 collection to offset some of the cost. There seems to be a lot of variability and little interchangeability with nailheads.

I'm not looking for someone to make the decision for me, just some opinions and pros and cons. So, what do you think? Pros/Cons? I know a nailhead will get much worse mileage than a 261, even as modified as mine would be. I'm not looking to race it, just a nice custom. Both are relatively unusual, look nice, and run great. 322s are harder to get parts fro than 401s which are harder than 261s.

 

personally i'd go with a straight six cuz everywhere i see everyone has a v8. plus it'd look a lot cooler to have a tricked out six under the hood.

 

I like nailheads, but a '48 Chevy NEEDS a hot 261 under the hood.

 

I forgot to mention that I need it to be reliable because I don't want to hesitate to be able to drive it to a show 10 hours away. Boring the 261 out to a 290 would be at its limits... of course, I don't HAVE to bore it that large...

 

Actually, everyone with this type car has a six. Nailhead would blow the **** out of the six, and sound 100 million times better. As far as cost, Nailheads aren't cheap. Sixes may not be either, but why spend a lot of cash on a truck motor?

P.S. Get the 401, lots of power and a ****load of torque stock. Switch pitch trans is neat, too.

 

when they put in a new motor too many people put in the now average and kinda boring sbc. but the nailhead is nice too. still i'd go with the inline six.

 

Nailhead....you can't argue with their torque (especially on the 364s and up).

-Lee
Atomic Radio
www.atomicpinup.com

 

A six for that car man. Sounds like you have most of the goodies together already as it is.

 

Leave the 261 in the coupe & build a drag car using the Buick engine ...

 

Do the nailhead. Mine has been great since I rebuilt it in my junkyard ready Wildcat 8 years ago. Plenty of power and torque, looks great under the hood and there are still plenty of parts out there for it.

 

Well, I like Nailhead's. So naturally, that's what I would use. But I don't have a dressed up 261 sitting in my garage either.

If I were you, I'd work with what I got. A 261 is cool. I personally think Nailhead's are better in every category than a straight six. (with the exception of gas mileage.)

But you can't argue with the fact that there's a motor in your garage already with dress-up parts.

 

I have a 250/th350 in my 48 fleetline. It is plenty of engine for the car. I would hate to need parts for either of your choices if it breaks down somewhere, but both are pretty bullet proof. I like the idea of putting the 6 in your car and the Nailhead in a car without a hood.

 

The 261, with all that work, will still be considerably slower than the stock Buick, and may get worse mileage as well. The machine work, if the lower needs rebuilding, is highly complicated and expensive - the Buick is kid stuff by comparison.
On the other hand, this was a serious car pre-1955, which is a different era.

bore and stroke it to a 290ci
I ***ume that's bored 1/8", and stroked with Chevy L6 292 rods to 4-1/8"?

Tattersfield 2x1 intake
IMHO this is one of the best designs, but may be a bit small for 290".

"race" head
Excellent!! Have any pictures details, casting number, measurements?

 

The machinist next door used to race 261's with 283 pistons. I'm not sure what expensive Egge pistons you were wanting, but I could has him what his set-up was if you'd like. I remember him telling me it was pretty competative against v-8s.

Recently we rebuilt a nailhead.. they aren't cheap to rebuild.

What is complicated about rebuilding the bottom of a chevy 6?

 

6...nuf said...

 

I just returned from my buddy's shop, lots of '48-'54 Chevies. Cool cars, several with V8s swapped in. What's wrong with a VINTAGE V8 swap? Isn't that what hot rodders did from 1955 until now(even before then?) I still don't get the whole six banger thing. Maybe I never will.

 

Richard D:
Would it help you to get it if you were running a C cl*** dragster in the early '60's and consistantly got a good view of the 'chute opening on an Altered powered by a 261?
They might not have the top end, but they can get there first.

 

A modified 261 built for street use might have 180-200 hp and will fit in the Chevy like the stock 216 .A stock 322 Buick should easily have 200 hp and sound like a V-8 and require some work to fit the Chevy.An all out drag only 261 that idles like **** and has no power below 3000 rpm might make 290 HP.

 

I would love to put a nailhead in my 35 p.u. but I'm taking the easy and cheaper way out and going with a s.b.c. but the nailheads looks to cool all decked out. I've I was younger I would take the road less traveled and go nailhead.

 

I run a 235 with Fentons in my '49 Chevy truck, daily driver. I'm up on the highway daily easily running at speed, powering up from the on ramps like anybody else. Dozens of 1k trips. Friends who have 261 tell me it's an *** kicker, power to spare. From what you've posted it seems like you are crunching numbers and don't have any 235-261 seat time. Oh, I run a '62 3sp+od and 3.90 rear, the math .70 overdrive X 3.90 rear = 2.73 highway.

 

I think he's referring to the offset grinding of the crank for the stroker deal.

 

I think the 261 with twice pipes would sound *****in'.

 

" A BIRD IN THE HAND........" dont bore that bird too much and it will be just fine. stick a t-5 or 200-700 r4 behind it for highway. i'll bet you know what you really want to do. go w/ it! vaya co DIOS

 

What does it cost to rebuild a nailhead? I was quoted $5000 by a local shop to rebuild a stock 216 to stock specs... which seems totally ridiculous to me, and that didn't include the overbore, steam hole, crank grinding and engine balancing. He does nice work, but he's used to dealing with higher end clients with money though. My 261 would need extensive machine work, mainly in grinding and balancing the crankshaft. Not sure what a good nailhead would need from a shop other than a good clean/inspection and new gaskets/bearings.

Revhead, yes, 292 Chevy rods (which I have) and overbore mid-80s Caddy pistons. Apparently they don't make them any more, but Egge carries them for all the people interested in the stroked 261 plan. I have all the details at home somewhere.

Speed parts and trans adapter are gonna hurt the wallet for the Nailhead. But will the cost of building up the 261 be less relative to power and reliability? That's kind of the kicker. I'm torn... but have years to make up my mind. I'm ***uming the 261 isn't cracked, too. The guts look good.

I'm surprised so many of you are telling me to stick with the 6! They DO look good.

As for the 261 "race" head, it may just be a nice 235 848 head. I got it on ebay from a speed shop in Indy. It had been cleaned up and looked brand new, so someone spent some time on it. They didn't know anything about it but thought it had been set up for racing. The guy who had worked on it was dead or gone. I think I paid $75 for it, so even if it's just a stock head, I'm not out much and it will give me .5 more compression.

Cosmo, I don't have any 261 seat time, but I've driven a stock 235/4.11 gears and ridden in a car with a 235 with 2x1 carbs/headers/3.73 gears (my wife's car). Big difference between the 2. BIG difference.

 

If you read the Frohmader article on the 235, you'll see exactly how complicated the block is (even with insert bearings).
All 4 main bearings are different sizes (line bore it 4 times), the cam bearings are 4 different sizes, only the very latest has an oil system you would consider (I think you're safe but before 1958 not), you have to manually align the caps, the insert registration is weird. DO NOT give this to someone under 60 years old who's "done a lot of engines". This has nothing in common with any V8 or 6 since 1950.

 

Pre '55 engines can get difficult and expensive if you are trying to modify them so they don't require shims, but I've done several '56-newer sixes without anything fancy being required.
If it needs align honing, that could cost more due to the different journal sizes, but thats about it. Haven't had one yet that needed it, though.

$5000 is rediculous for a stock rebuild. I think I spent around $2500 including the dressup stuff for the 261 in my truck, but I did all the ***embly work and sourced the parts.

I believe you can get stroker cranks "ready to go" right from Tom Langdon...

 

Not a 261 but still a straight six.... a 302 Jimmy. Doesn't sound too bad to me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJOZ3IFuOOI&feature=related

 

Depends on the condition and what you want. I did the 425 in my 57 for about $1500 for parts and machine work. I've got one I'm gonna do that will probably run the customer close to $2k (basic re-ring, bearing, gasket job) and one that is gonna be around$3.5k (new pistons but basically stock with a wam cam). It's hard to say unless I know the condition and what you want out of it. The machine work can be expensive and it can be time consuming to mic and check clearances.

 

How can the time it takes to mic and machine a Nailhead be that much more than any other overhead V8? You still have to mic the crank and polish or grind if needed (Nailheads don't usually have excessive wear on the crank and usually polish within .001-.002" unless they spun a main bearing), resize the rods, bore/hone the block, boil block, fit the pistons/rings, install new cam bearings, rebuild heads, re***emble. Checking the clearances is something that should be done on all re***emblies, even if you just take it apart for a rering/bearing job. You need to know if there is excessive wear or poor fitment in the engine. I did the same things on my nailhead as I did the BBC in the wifes old Suburban. No different than any other motor job...
Now doing head work, or something of that matter adds time and materials, but still, not much more than any other OHV V8.
Maybe if you have to rebuild the oil pump as opposed to installing a new one, but how much time does something like that take? a couple of hours would be pushing it, shop rate of $80-90/hr is still only $160-180 more.

Personally I would go with the inliner with a couple of carbs and twice-pipes. Nothing sounds sweeter than a six with split manifolds.
I remember the first Rockabilly-Rumble we did...the guys from the southern part of the state came in with about a half dozen inliners with splits, some through mufflers, some straight pipes...
The crowd went wild as they all took turns heading out-up through 1st into 2nd then backing out of it heading into the traffic light...still can hear them pipes...sweet sweet music.

 

Wasn't saying it took longer on a Nailhead, I was saying it was time consuming period. Most of the guys I see doing SBC's aren't doing a good job, hell most of the don't degree the cam. Line up the marks and go. To do a thorough job takes time, and that costs....

But there is a difference between a basic re-ring/freshen up and a full blown hi-po build. CC'ng combustion chambers, line boring, etc. That can double the price easily...