chevy "hot starter" fix?

also the 7.4 l too its the same starter you have to say its the gear reduction starter as they also used the standard style one too , the GR starter is a Remy 96206 or GM #10465167 if you can wait rock auto has them for $100 without shipping listed under 1996 c3500 5.7 l they are for 168 tooth 5.7 l motor s

and thats new no core , GM performance sells it for $300 at summit plus a core .

 

So what you're saying is the solenoid still has to kick the bendix , just byp***ing bthe internal disc [switch ]to the starter motor... seems to me it would be easier to change the solenoid / starter to 1 that works correctly [I know what you're saying about the solenoid /plunger expanding /sticking.
dave

 

yes , and it gets rid of the problem of a bad switch disc .

problem is they do not build starters like they used too and rebuilds are often iffy and the new selinoids do not use quality stuff unless you find american made or use race style stuff . when the cars were built they often there was heat sheilding over the starter and selinoid but often that was a piece that was not put back on when the starter was changed out as it was a s***ch maker ( cut you up ) or a pain in the **** to reinstall , on Pontiacs this often the hot start problem as the manifolds run right there as its a tight fit , its funny what a flimsy piece of sheetmetal can do in a situation like this .

 

Nope, doesn't byp*** the disc in the GM solenoid, it works through it.

I've always used the Ford relay on GMs. so that I don't have a hot cable snaking past the headers to short out whenever it feels like it. Also, it gives you a place to hook up your timing light on racecars when the battery is in the back and a place to hook your remote starter switch for bumping the engine over. And it doesn't hurt that it seems to really help hot start problems (I don't really know why, it just does).

BTW, did you know that Ford used a starter with a GM type solenoid and a Ford relay on some Thunderbirds. They use a neat little jumper strap between the hot post and the S post of the solenoid. I try to keep several around here.

 

Had the same issue, and installed a Ron Francis "hot start relay kit' and the problem went away.

 

And I've heard of those too. I think what I'll do, is replace the solenoid and add a heat shield at the same time. Then, I'll see how long it lasts. I'll update.

 

........................Anybody??

 

I have seen 2 kits , one that you show , and those I have had problems with as the selinoid still gets power but can still not hit the ****on hard enough to kick over the motor or still causes low power from lack of contact , and the good ones which byp*** the selinoid poles and kick in the motor no matter what and helps pop out the bendix .

 

If your starter has a few years on it the bushings can wear and cause the same problems.

 

Okay, but mine is only about a year and a half.

 

Sadly , new doesn't always = good
dave

 

The times I had that problem they were a few years old. Could just be a bad solenoid, it happens.

 

My suburban has been running warm since I put the AC on it. Starter doesn't work some times....never had any issues with it before the AC. So....I remembered a trick from back when...I get my wife to turn the key, and I reach under with a hammer and give it a tap or two. Works every time.

I need to fix:

1. The cooling issue.
2. The starter is kind of old....
3. I could add a small (bosch style) relay to the circuit for the purple wire. This is how I fixed a similar issue on my 55. What was happening was that the voltage at the starter S terminal was about 7 volts, not enough to pull in the solenoid. Head adds resistance, and the purple wire from the key switch, through the Neutral safety switch ,to the solenoid, is pretty long and drops voltage.

 

I had the same problem Fred. Mine is a brand new mini starter and was getting cooked by the headers. I've gone with the remote Ford starter and haven't had a problem since.

 

Good to hear. I still have not gotten a new starter, so I may consider that route. Thanks!

 

Newer GM permanent magnet starters, from '96 and up 5.7. I've put several on customers cars with headers and have been working for years. 2 things, 1 is that it doesn't have the 12v kick up for points (I terminal) and you need shorter bolts. Just get a good quality one or one with a good warranty .

 

I normally don't go for kits, but here's a couple to do the ford solenoid to chevy starter and the price is right.
http://www.madelectrical.com/catalog/st-1.shtml
http://m.summitracing.com/parts/sum-g1750

 

have done this on a tractor and it works good , tap right from the battery thru the relay no drop in current ****er smacks the bendix out hard too even warm .

Might want to look into a oem heat sheild for the starter as my 85 burb had one and when they removed it when they replaced the starter , it caused nothing but hot start problems and its cooler than down there . I put it back on and the hot start problems went away . also check the bulkhead connector at the firewall as I found that some connectors the grease they put in them dries out and the connectors corrode and cause voltage drops or the screw is loose and the plug backs out

 

I forgot to add to this post when it was first up. I have a friend who put a water sprayer set up on a '70 suburban after they put on A/C and going to Montana every summer in the late 80's. Had a water pump some jets to spray water in front of the radiator, a toggle switch to turn it on and it use water from the windshield washer bottle. He did the same for a 80's Toyota motorhome that was hopped up to go 35mph up hills in the desert. Used plastic tubing with holes drilled in it for a sprayer and tapped into the fresh water tank.

 

I just had a look through this thread.
Are any of you qualified Auto Electricians?

A few posts had me face palming.

1. How good is the battery? Remember they're only good for an average 3-4 years. In a car that sits around, less.(sulphating)

2. How heavy are the cables? (the big battery cables?)
3. How good are your earths? batt to ch***is/batt to block/ch***is to block?
4. Do you have a starter relay (40Amp job?) Are you using at least 4mm sq. wire from relay to solenoid?
5. Heat shield over starter motor?
6. Heat shield over + cable to starter solenoid? (fibregl*** sheath or other)
something like this http://www.techflex.com.au/techflex-braided-sleeving-products/insultherm-tru-fit-braided-sleeving


or this http://www.techflex.com.au/techflex.../fireflex-silicone-coated-fibergl***-sleeving


6A you can have the headers coated (ceramic?) to knock a lot of heat off.
6B starter cover (like a turbo blanket?) only in extreme cases.

heat increases electrical resistance. & a Resistance increase = voltage drop.

You talk about Ford solenoids - these were meant for the "clapper" (moving pole shoe) starters that had no solenoid attached. And IMO they were a stupid idea, along with being a ***** of a starter to re-condition.
Some spoke about whacking the starter with a hammer - this is most likely because you are nearly out of brushes. And don't even think of whacking a permanent magnet starter (non - wound {shunt} fields type) you will break the magnets = next cranking cycle = seized armature blocked from rotation via magnets you just smashed = cable fire. Hope you have an extinguisher!

And as for adding A/C; the condenser temps increase the overall engine bay temps. Get a better thermo fan FFS.
Reduction starters are quite good, if they fit in the space.
I also saw an earlier post showing a delco remy starter... the 2 x tabs coming from the fields to the solenoid show it as a hi torque starter. one tab = low torque.

As for the plunger in a solenoid sticking when hot - this is complete bull too.
And as for some starters not having the 2nd terminal for ballast ignition systems - just use the single terminal!!!
One wire will be the start signal, the 2nd (ignition) wire can be added to the start terminal, with a diode to block ignition signal to the solenoid. AKA the ignition coil only gets juice from the starter terminal when "start" signal comes from the key, because the diode is in the ignition wire coming from the start terminal. Not hard.

And yes I am an Auto sparky.

If you want a picture, it'll have to wait until the weekend.

Cheers Mudgy. Not looking for a flame war, I just want to point out proven FACTS.

 

Also, a starter relay byp***es solenoid current draw going through the contacts in your ignition switch, and inhibitor switch (if you have auto transmission), prolonging the life of these switches. Manufacturers didn't put one in due to cost.

 

Ditto, I use newer PM starters and have no issues with heat soak, they work great. 93-97 camaro z28 LT1 starter has inline bolts for the 153 flywheel / flexplate, 95 chevy 1 ton truck with the 454 has the angled bolts for the 168.

 

Yes. But as you should know imparting electrical knowledge over the internet is a challenge. You can't give a lesson in electrical theory and expect everyone to get it. I also have to ***ume that the OP checked power and grounds before posting. Heat shields and wraps are weak at best if the starter is too close to the header and no amount of cable thickness is going to cure a starter if it's drawing a crazy amount of amps (the battery can only give so much). Lastly, I suggested a PM starter that is unaffected by heat, but doesn't have the kick up terminal......if it works fine without the wire for points (which most people aren't running now anyways) why would I want to muddy the waters with how to hook one up. There's a difference between having the knowledge and using the knowledge.

 

new motor with headers = hot start problem
summit $19 solenoid kit = no more problem
20 minute fix

 

I used the Ford starter solenoid until they started making the mini starters,since then I gaven't had any hot starting problems.

The mini starters are a little more expensive but it's worth it to me to avoid the problem.HRP

 

The Ford starter switch will work most of the time GM switches burn the contacts to power the starter rotating . The mag coil that engages the starter into the flywheel are ok .

 

Imparting ANY knowledge it seems, is now a waste of my time. I give up.

 

Your ideal is interesting! I just finished my car, everything new, and it started doing this hard start( slow turn over) when hot. I too have a junk yard ,70s chevy column. I 'll try this and see if it helps. Thanks for the info.

 

I have had this hot start problem on BBC's. My cheap solution is to put in an old time starter ****on and eliminate the starter contacts on the ignition switch. Use heavy gage wire to and from the starter switch. Getting rid of the voltage drop which you get through the small wires and small ignition switch will make a big difference.

 

I've used the shield that ezshields makes for the standard Chevy starter. It worked great and is not too pricey. You can find them on EBay and see them on www.ezshields.com.
They ship them flat and they are formed to fit the starter shape by the user, but it did come with good instructions. Wasn't hard to do at all. I'm a fan.