chevy II 153 four cylinder

Wouldn’t think it would cause any issue? Would be similar to a cracked block being repaired and they do that often?

also it looks like the oil return has been shaped into a tear drop on his block. Instead of adding a little groove like the one I sent you. Hard to notice in his photos but I think that’s what’s going on

 

I could ruin a lot of blocks trying to get that done.

 

I mean you’ve got more than one..

 

I'd never be able to find just one around here. Things get lost.

 

Thanks for the photos Nick.
It's been too long for me to remember the technicalities.
But, there's always more than one way to skin a cat.

 

My father built two engines. This one was the test mule, the one he actually raced he laid down flat like a vw engine. The cylinder head was outside of the left side of the chassis, just behind the left front tire. This was in a midget circle track open wheel car. I am going to belt drive a Barnes 4 stage oil pump that will also drive the kse power steering pump and the dsr fuel injection pump. The cylinder head is a Barnes down draft sbc head. I was going to shelf the project after my step father passed who was also my engine builder and only sponsor. A good friend called me last night and is going to help me with the build. The plan is to use Oliver sbc sprintcar rods, and locate the side thrust of the rod with the piston. The oil system will have two scavenge lines sucking out of the oil pan, and there will be two hoses off either end of the cylinder head to scavenge oil out of the head for the 4th stage. Oh ya, did I mention that the engine will be mounted 15 degrees from horizontal?
Nick Landon
Feather Ruffler Engineering
Landon Racing

 

Whoa!

 

To me the biggest hurtle for a SBC head is plugging this to take a head bolt

 

From what I'm m gathering is guys either welded them up or brazed them shut. I've been a tig welder for 20 years building sprintcar and midgets parts, and I'll admit this deal is above my head. I'm not sure if nickel or stainless rod was used. The welded area isn't rusting. Either way I bet it's a bitch to drill and tap.
Nick Landon
Feather Ruffler Engineering
Landon Racing

 

With that much depth could you take a tapped tube, weld it into your filler plate on the bench.

then take a head gasket and make a “jig” out of plate that uses this new hole plus two existing head studs to locate it all.

bolt it in place and brazed it in, pull the jig off.

 

So all of this talk of rods and combinations. This is a reminder that you can do just about anything within your abilities and imagination. I'm working a a friend who is semi retired from building sprintcar engines. I just picked up a brand new crank this weekend. As long as the parts look good, the plan is to use a set of Oliver or K1 rods out of the sprintcar parts pile. If I trim the offset off the rod, and machine the pin sidewalls inside the piston, make an assortment of spacers, I'll use the piston for the side thrust of the rod. No I will not be using welded in spacer bearings.
Nick Landon
Feather Ruffler Engineering
Landon Racing

 

Has anyone considered changing the bolt pattern on the heads instead of the block? Years ago (50?) my friend’s dad (who was an old time hot rodder) invited me to a party with a bunch of his friends. I soon found out why. He knew I was into the 4 cylinder Chevy II engines, I am still running one in my AVATAR. He introduced me to Cliff Collins (of Harman Collins Cams). We talked a lot. He had a head he thought I might be interested in. Turned out he had about 25 bare heads on the shelf. They started out life (if I remember correctly) as high performance 327 Chevy heads. Every bolt hole had been relocated, the unused holes plugged, and an aluminum casting was made to cover the push rods where they passed outside of the block. I bought one, there could still be 24 more in a warehouse somewhere. The rules of the racing organization had changed and the heads had become illegal to use for their intended racing application.

Charlie Stephens

 

I wonder how LS head with 4 bolts/cyl lines up

 

I have wondered also and there aluminum so one might be able to relocate the head bolt holes on the head slightly.

I know there are after market SBC blocks that take LS cylinders so the bore spaceing must be close . dont know about the valve lay out / order however .

 

The rods for these are identical to small block rods except that the v8 rods have been machined on one did so they can sit two to a crank journal. That is why the bottom end is narrower. It has lost the material for the bevel on that side. They use the same bearings. Many rod choices are there if someone would just grab the forgings before that step was done.....

 

Im not sure . you have a couple bolts that are damn near in the ports of a SBC already . it might be more doable on a aluminum head were you could jsut plug the existing bolt holes . Im thinking you would have some issues on the intake side.

I have at least two junk blocks to play with . Id play hell gettng them preheated enough to do much and then play hell again cooling them slow .

 

LS is IE IE IE IE so no good as no cam available

 

Doesn't SCAT or some one sell a rod for the 6 cylinder ?
As far as running a stock rod Id imagine the factory rod in the 3.0 is about as good as any stock SBC rod . The later 3.0 ( Post 91 ??) uses a narrower rod ( I think ) and its a Powdered metal rod ( I think ) .

Unless your getting takeout rods from a sprint car or similar Id imagine any after market US rod company could supply one not milled away on one side.

You don't hear of many boats breaking rods and them things spin ski high every time the prop cones out of the water and there running under load at 4300 all day long. In a Midget yea Id want after market rods but on a street rod unless your really pushing it I doubt a stock rod thats properly prepped will be the weak link. Factory rod is generally lighter also . Run the best bolts you can afford

Back in 85 we won a 360 sprint car championship with a engine that ran the old stock SBC pink rods with the bushed free float ends the entire season ( I still have the short block ) . car hit 8000 RPM all the time . Yea we were pushing the limits but what 20 year old had $1200 for Carrillo rods in 85? Thousands of road race Corvettes and Camaro's ran factory rods for years. we had our money in the heads and cam .

Unless you have the valve train to run 8000 RPM id not worry a lot about the rods on a street motor. Even them you need to be making some serious HP to hurt a rod at say 6000 RPM unless its running there non stop . My opinion

You start buying $1000 rods and expensive heads and cams you can just buy a aluminum SBC block and be about the same weight and 400HP more

 

kind of what I was thinking in the message . I think you could make something to slip under the deck with a threaded bolt hole in it . so its all pulling on the bottom of the deck located by a jig then drop the filler piece on top of that and braze it all in . might be over thinking this. might be as simple as making a plug that already got a threaded hole locate it and braze it in.

would be nice if a tapered part that pulled in tight from below could be made somehow maybe slide it in made in two pieces and weld /braze it together after. might be able to jsut run tapered pins like for a crack around it then ? jsut spit balling here .

I think the existing bolt holes counter sunked could also pull a internal plate up if you could get it in there some how. the rear frost plug is right below it.

 

Well for motivation after 23 years I got the car into the shop.
The frame is for a 27 T body that I have for it.
It's a really old speedway kit I think.
Uses coil rear springs ( likely change out ) with coil overs or a buggy spring I have .
The 27 Speedway kit has a longer frame than the 23 they sold.

I threw a tape on the SBC with the short pump and on the 4 cylinder at the water pump flange. The 4 cyl is about 4" shorter or so.
The SBC already takes a spacer to get the fan close to the radiator so a 4Cylinder will have a lot of room in front of it. To much IMO . Even the V8 looks a bit weird in there .
Might move the engine forward with the 4 CYL try to use my rear exhaust manifold .

I'd rather keep the weight rearward but also don't want 8" in front of the fan. Could move the radiator I suspose then the frame sticks out to far IMO .

 

Those rear coil springs were generally corvajr fronts & will deliver a much better ride than your proposed alternatives . shocks will be less expensive as well !

 

The rear end has been in it for at least 23 years that I have had it . Has a 57 chevy rear with a P carrier . simple hair pins.
Thanks for the info on what the springs likely are I have often wondered.
Yeap just basic car shocks it appears. has a short pan hard bar .

I bought it at the Grays lake swap meet in IL years ago . hauled it all home in a SB jeep Comanche PU with 2x's ' across the bed with the front wheels sticking out a few feet out the back .
got home and got divorced a few months later ( wonder if it was the car ?)

Its always looked a bit long even with the 27 body on it .

 

1biggun,
My track t over on the other thread is a 27 back haft, 23 front haft body. They were made by Superior. It has a 111-inch wheelbase. The big 4 is pretty much the same length as the 327 I took out of the car.

 

Has anyone CC'd any of these heads? Mainly the chamber?

 

The problem I see, is, when welding up the block deck, water flow into the head is virtually cut off. Or, does water flow up through the unused stock bolt holes? Somehow it must work because they were raced successfully.

That thought had occurred to me also. I can see one potential problem with it. The 153 head is pretty much vertical on the exhaust side and its vertical mass provides more rigidity between the head bolts and therefor potentially more clamping force than the SBC head does with its thin edge and slope back from the deck. This is probably why SBC heads have that row of bolts along the outside edge.

 

Is there anything about how much is gained by doing this?

 

Well if we figure about what a really good head can do on a SBC over the best Iron stock head that's arguably better than what your going to get out if a reworked 4cyl head I'd think it would be quite a bit. The other consideration is weight reduction and cooling and the ability to run about a point more of compression on the same gas.

Is there 45 HP to be gained ??
I'm sure with a cam to take advantage of the head especially on a 3.0 it's very possable at higher RPM.

I fully agree that most are not racing these but when you can buy say single race head from a motor that had a issue on the other side for litteraly $250 on up with trick parts then it gets attractive .

Then there is the look at what I got sitting between the rails .

I have a pump gas , street roller cam 350 here that makes almost 500 HP with a set of older Brodix heads.
Can a 153 make 250 with the same head and cam profile ?? Don't know but even if it made 200 that's a lot .
Even 175 is a big gain .

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/154237614590?hash=item23e94739fe:g:WvEAAOSw8Wlf0lrY

2.05 Valves may not clear the cylinders on a 153" but for $300 you get my point .

I could have got a single AFR well ported race head with valves and springs at the swap meet this summer for $175 he had a Jessel shaft rocker set for another 100 that one side had a issue.
Wish I had grabbed it all now.
Been looking for his card.
It was of a 360 sprint car and on alcohol would have made about 700 HP . Not street stuff really but lighter springs it would have worked on a flat tappet cam .

Having the intake on the LH side also balances out the look IMO .

A lot of this is just spit balling .
If I find a good extra 2.5 block I might give it a try .

I'm thinking that's nickel rod in the above picture . Dosent look yellow like brass or bronze .

As long as the head stud dosent pull it up and the gasket seals off the water it will work . Even if had a small crack it would likely work.

Then there is about a 1000 differant valve covers you can use

 

@X-cpe yup open up them up a bit and they’ll go
Right into the head

 

I guess one of my problems is that I don't like the way they look. And since I'm not going to be racing the extra work in't worth it. I expect 150 hp maybe a little more from mine and that will do. Maybe someday I'll come across a Duggan/Deppe or Ansen head that will just bolt on. I wonder if anyone has looked at cutting down a Ford 300 six head?
I see your point in finding a good single already built sb head. I think a 181 would be a better choice and are probably easier to find now. I passed on two in the last year.