Technical Chrome plated headlight reflectors

I’m getting close on my custom 39 Packard headlights. 39 Buick housings, Guide lens and original Packard rings and reflectors. I found the original Packard reflectors fit. They are badly weathered silvered brass.
I have been told that the original coating is a specialised resilver or an aluminium reflecting material. ( expensive).
I have been told that substitute repro 37/39 headlight buckets can be put inside but it appears these are just chrome plated.
I thought of just chroming my headlight buckets.
Anyone know if their is a discernible difference if I use modern 12v halogen bulbs?

 

I made my own set of reflectors for my Willys which had none. I busted the front off a modern sealed beam and mad a casting of it with epoxy resin. I then made fiberglass buckets and epoxied halogen sockets from another junk yard car. The I sent these to a guy who did aluminum vpaor deposit chrome plating for plastic models. Finally made a couple of 'chrome' rimed with a jug saw from 1/4" aluminum and installedthem all with reproduction '36 Willys glass lenses. Been working ok for 25 or so years. Point is, those old headlights were so bad, a chrome plated reflector will be as good as any fancy coating.

Epoxy mold used to prop up Mysterion healight pod fiberglass mold.


Finished headlights.

 

I had the headlamp reflectors on my 35 Chevy resilvered 20yrs ago however I can't recall who did them however this SA business made H4 QH bulbs to suit my OEM reflectors with correct focus to work as designed on low and high beams. They may be able to assist as to who may do what your require?

 

I would check with UVIRA ((541) 474-5050) and at least get a price. It will be more expensive than chrome but much better. Remember when you look at the price to subtract the price of chrome that you not be doing and then look at the delta.

Charlie Stephens

 

I've got an article somewhere that describes the silvering process - but needless to say the author wrote that chroming the buckets will affect the lights ability to properly reflect all the bulbs light output and your ability to have a properly focused beam (and be able to see at night) Talk with the professionals about this process and decide if your investment in time and your safety is worth the amount it would cost to have a job properly done (like Charlie just said above). The fluted lenses weren't actually that bad with focusing the lights - remember these cars had 6V bulbs that didn't put out the lumens of today's bulbs - so it may just be worth the investment to consider having the reflectors re-silvered --- but make sure to NOT touch the reflective surface as it damages the surface.
That Packard looks beautiful!

 

I had some plastic trim redone - vacuum metalising. Over time the finish has tarnished slightly and I note that it isn't as bright as it was originally, have your new buckets suffered a similar fate or do they hold their lustre and reflect light adequately?

 

I agree, with silvering or just plain chrome will be fine as it’s most likely to be just a flood of light through those lenses and not a focused beam.

 

Check with Steve's Auto Restoration

 

Had a reflector re silvered couple of weeks back US$25 at mates rates, over the counter would be $40, hardly expensive. Talk to a plater that does it. Chrome is useless at reflecting light.

 

This... First, silvering was originally done for the simple reason it's a superior reflective surface, with aluminum a close second. But aluminum isn't as durable, another reason it's generally not used. Chrome doesn't even make the list.

Second, having the lamp filament at the focal point of the reflector is fairly critical. Most modern lamps won't install correctly in these old reflectors and missing the focal point can have drastic effect on how well the assembly works. If you have a Maglite flashlight, look how much the beam changes when you adjust the reflector by turning it. Knowing what the OEM lamp looks like will help.

Some places have enforced lighting standards, unfortunately the US isn't one of them so the US aftermarket is free to sell whatever to unsuspecting buyers. So you have 'conversions' that may or may not meet standards, usually the only time anybody notices is if light output is truly terrible or if you're getting 'flashed' regularly. If you ask for an output chart you'll get a blank look. If you have an inspection process there, it may pay to go the extra mile to insure that the lights pass.

 

Nickle plating would probably work OK. and you can set up to do it at home.

 

Yes if exposed to air I suspect a vacuum metalized finish will degrade. However my buckets are sealed; silicone gluing the glass lens to the front, an O-ring seal on the halogen light puck in back. Been doing great for the past 25 years, only a few years 'til they haul me off to Trembling Hills so I think it will make it!
Am pretty sure reflectivity of chrome will be just fine in this application. not up there with aluminum or silver but I doubt the human eye could detect the difference. As long as the polisher doesn't distort the surface on the polishing wheel, chrome is very nearly as good as silvered coating. Modern sealed beams just use vapor deposited 'chrome' (aluminum) mirror finish on the glass globe's reflective surface. Silver plating was done in the day because these other technologys were not perfected. And I doubt your Packard is intended to be a daily driver? If just a show cruiser, you likely won't be doing a lot of cross country freeway night driving anyway.

 

I had the ones in my 37 cadillac done in chrome,im using the original 6 volt bulbs.I am dissapointed in them,i will be getting them resilvered next time.My parts are all stock,I know these lights were no hell when they were new?.I dont drive a lot at night anyway.Spend the extra money and do it right the first time,wish i had. harvey

 

When I was rebuilding the headlamps for my '39 Chevy project I wanted to upgrade from the old bulbs to modern headlamps, but I wanted to retain the lenses, and everything inside where I could. My reflectors had almost no silver plating left, and just a copper look to them. I considered polishing the reflectors, and then clear coating, but decided to instead paint them with "chrome" paint instead.
I reworked the reflectors by buying a pair of junk headlamps from a 90's car that had halogen headlamps. Fitted them to my reflectors by using a holesaw to cut the sockets out, and then cut the donor socket/reflector down to fit behind my reflectors. Then drilled and pop rivetted them in place with JB Weld to seal them to the reflector.
I bought LED conversion lamps to fit the halogen sockets after researching which color would look most like normal headlamps. They work great, and externally look just the same as originals. But are fairly bright, without being obnoxious too.











This conversion using junkyard donor sockets, and new LED lamps cost me less than $40 to do, and took me a couple hours to do.

 

Modern sealed beams get away with aluminum because they are sealed and in a vacuum to boot. Silvering is still used on quality aftermarket non-sealed headlights today because it's still the best choice. A 20 to 25% hit on reflectivity with chrome WILL be visible...

 

Before I bothered with chrome or aluminum plate I would just have the reflectors restored. There are places that do that and a quick google search will probably produce several. Lots of hambers have had that done and it should be relatively easy to get some reviews here.

 

I have always wondered about some of the spray-on chrome systems like "Spectra-Chrome". The chrome finish is really bright until you spray the clear on it, then it gets dull. The process is not a spray can or even a can of paint, it applied with water and can be applied to almost anything. If you sprayed the chrome, left off the clear and seal the reflector from the air. Just wondering. There are shops that can do this.

 

@CadMad since @willys36 said he was able to remove the lense off the Hi/Lo beam number 2 bulb which are 7" dia...could you not adapt that in lieu of the original bucket and use your lense?

The bulb wouldn't be affected as it's a Halogen Bulb which is protected by it's own bulb...

Now if your bucket exceeds 7" there would be a void and likely this would eliminate the option of...



...known as a H064 it has a halogen bulb permanently installed and once burned out the whole assembly is discarded and replaced...they are very reasonably priced a under 20 buck each I noted a BIG improvement over my vintage headlights which were converted to halogen but with tarnished silvering

The reason I'm suggesting removing the lense is you would see both lenses if putting the complete unit in and that looks like chit...

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By the mid-late '30s headlight optics were well understood and while some cars sacrificed output to styling (and they still do that today), most were designed as assemblies. Changing any one item can alter light output and focus, usually negatively if you vary much from the original design. I'm not a fan of most conversions for this reason.... or HID/LED either. Incandescent lamps (including Halogen) produce a fuller-spectrum light very similar to sunlight, the type of light our eyes are evolved to 'see'. HID/LED are narrower spectrum, sometimes making it difficult for your eyes to recognize what you're seeing. The HID lights in my daily driver aren't the equal to a well-designed Halogen light IMO, and they took some getting used to.

I see that some LED suppliers are now advertising 'wide spectrum' output, recognizing the problem. But how wide?....

 

I agree many a vintage light in a good original silver or properly restored silver with a Halogen bulb will produce great appreciable results but at what cost...

@Hemi Joel proved your point with a Thread on Woodlites on his Big Car...not sure what make it was maybe Packard but they worked pretty darned good...

I noted a pretty admirable change with an upgraded Halogen sealed beam which I think are even still available non Halogen as well...

In the big scheme of things resilvering the bucket might be well worth it...but if Cads headlight housing fits a delensed $12 halogen seal beam it's worth a try...

 

Thanks @TrailerTrashToo I'll bring that link up as it buried in the response...

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/tested-how-good-or-bad-are-woodlites.1240632/

 

Thanks for all the comments. Ha, there is a lot more science involved than I originally anticipated. All good suggestions.
I’ll investigate the Ulvira process. The only drama is international postage which is both time wise and financially crippling.
I’m interested to hear what the light output is like from 1971BB427. Those Chevy buckets are nearly identical to mine… just a smaller diameter.
I’ve been wondering if modern bulbs are more advanced and if they will perform with different/ better capabilities to offset or compensate for compromised reflector quality?
One of my reflectors was found in the dirt of the workshop floor and was badly crushed. I was amazed at how malleable the brass was and managed to pop it all out. Whether it has been optically compromised I don’t yet know.
I’ll polish it some more and investigate either finding a replacement or seeing how good I can get it.
I guess until I pull the light switch on and can determine the brightness it’s all a bit academic.
I’ll also give the Aussie Company that MGSTUMPY suggested a call.

 

When installing a Halogen socket at the very least it should be orientated same as the vehicle it came out of...mine where upside down to OEM. I repositioned them and also discovered the wiring was incorrect leaving me with a very dull low beam...

I certainly had Hi/Low proper and am not sure if reorienting the bulbs mattered but I'm thinking they best be placed in a OEM position...

Previous to finding the wiring issue I just ran Hi beam only and with the chitty silver NO One beamed me...I then cleaned the silvering with mag polish and then I started getting beamed...

I have since replace the oldies with a smaller 7" period correct Headlight...

 

After being in the electrical industry for 30+ years and doing design/build bids, I became very aware of differences in lighting sources. Halogens are a good replacement for older incandescent lamps as they're basically the same type of lamp, just a higher output and a fuller spectrum (closer to sunlight). The main key is getting the filament as close to the original location as the OEM lamp as possible, which some suppliers are now addressing. Where problems can occur is the lenses are designed to 'spread' the light giving as much coverage as possible without excessive glare for oncoming drivers. With the dimmer OEM lamps, at the edges of the pattern where you can have random 'scatter', this isn't objectional but install a much brighter lamp and this can now be a problem. This is what I mean when I say these are 'assemblies'. Another issue is how the reflector 'sees' the light pattern off the lamp. Incandescent lamps produce most of their light in the middle of the filament. HID is the opposite, the middle is dimmer, the ends are bright. LED are the worst, most use multiple elements trying to mimic the light spread but can't duplicate the 'everywhere' emitting of an incandescent with all I've seen only having forward and sideways emitters. In a design-from-scratch scenario, each type would have it's own lens design.

It will depend to a large amount to how good you need them to be, and to a degree how good your night vision is. Town driving or reasonably well-lit roads, probably not a big deal. Rural roads can be a totally different deal. Where I live, there's very few lights, most roads are tree-lined so moon or star light doesn't always help, and on a gloomy rainy night I've seen caves that can look brighter. With some of the new vehicles having those really bright HID or LED lights, if yours aren't up to snuff those will 'wash out' your lights and prevent you from 'seeing' the road past their lights. Not a good thing...

A non-related story but this really brought home the importance of the right light source to me. We were building a new elementary school and it had a combination gym/cafeteria. The engineer had specced high-bay sodium lights for energy saving reasons at the time (LEDs were still just pilot lights and such). The room was well lit, but the school lunches under that yellow-orange light looked even less appetizing than they normally did, to the point where the kids wouldn't eat them...

 

Yes Crazy Steve, I worked under sodium vapour lights for many years. A very yellow light. My new shed has led lights which are a much whiter or bluer light. It is much more comfortable on the eyes.
Interesting I read about the difference in the receptors in the eyes of different nationalities carrying over to perception of colours. Asians prefer yellow whites, whereas Anglo Saxon prefer blue white.
Looks like I have a bit more homework to do.

 

I hate soft white and prefer white light but the 12 dollar sealed Halogen inspired headlight bulbs really deliver a soft but not white light...but a credible light for an old car much like the original 2D1 true sealed Beams that made all the Hotrod gang toss the big oldies...

Anyone know when the 12v sealed beams came out and was there a 6 volt sealed beam previous to that...they are the precursor to the 7" sealed Halogen bulbs I'm now using...

 

Pretty sure the 1940 Packard and Cadillac used sealed beams. I went on the Fusick website and they have 6v sealed beams available. But I’m going 12v the whole exercise for me is the beautiful domed streamlined glass lenses which I will loose if I go sealed beams.

 

You could use the original lenses and remove the lense on the 7" halogen headlight bulbs the Halogen within is still a sealed unit...

The lense is sealed on with a grey sealant

By the way they are real glass...

If your lense is the same diameter you might be able to seal it together and make it one unit...that'd be neat...

@willys36 what did you do to separate the lense?



...if you look to the left side of my bulb you can see the adhesive squeezeout...you can also see the outer lense and the mirrored bucket are different colors...both are glass...and yes I know my bulb is chipped...I ran it anyway...
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@CadMad what is the diameter of your lense?

 

You might enquire with these guys, in Adelaide. I get the impression they deal mostly with British stuff, but may have some clues.
http://users.chariot.net.au/~acpearson/index.html

Among other things they have these halogen bulbs:

American Pre Focus 6, 8 & 12 volt

APF Bulbs are specifically suited to American built cars, trucks and motorcycles made between 1934 and 1950.
Replaces # 2320, 2330, 2350 etc
Available as 2331 & 2351 for Chrysler based cars.