So I have this 62 Imperial. I can't get a solid pedal. When first applying the pedal it initionally feels OK then it hits a spot, has a lil kink to it and drops down almost to the floor. I have all new brake lines, hoses, master, booster (rebuilt by Booster Dewey), rear wheel cylinders and right front upper wheel cylinder. They are adjusted. I have no leaks. I took the brake line out of the master and put in a plug, the pedal will hardly move. I've bled the hell out of it and I'm at a point of just complete irritation. I've never had to use a power bleeder before, should I try that? Anyone have any clue here?
QUOTE: I have all new brake lines, hoses, master, booster (rebuilt by Booster Dewey), rear wheel cylinders and right front upper wheel cylinder. ======= I am Cucurious to know thwe answer to this one, too...I am looking at one to buy that's been sitting, and this was my exact plan (right down to using that Dewy guy!)... What else is there to check?
Hmm, sounds like there may be an problem with one of the seals inside the MC. Usually the symptoms are just that. Pedal feels fine but once you reach x pressure the fluid blows past the faulty seal and the pedal goes dead/limp.
That makes sense. If thats the case then where does the fluid go? Would it go back into the reservoir? Because its not leaking out the back of the master.
that much replaced items will take alot of methodical bleeding to purge the system prolly have to fill the m/c 3 times or more to get the system bled ... have help.. stop the process in time with pressure held on the pedal close bleeders fully start furthest fom the m/c and recheck that one cyl you did not change look for hoses that could be swelling too
3 times? thats all? I've gone through three big bottles of brake fluid haha. And the only place that fluid is coming out of is the bleeders.
I would try plugging the the outputs at the junction block (left front, right front, rear) one at a time to see if anything changes.
"Hmm, sounds like there may be an problem with one of the seals inside the MC. Usually the symptoms are just that. Pedal feels fine but once you reach x pressure the fluid blows past the faulty seal and the pedal goes dead/limp." If he plugged the output of the MC and got a hard pedal, wouldn't that tell him the MC seals are good?
Bleeding brakes ? Read the book ! Each wheel cyl.when bled will start to run clear then you shut the bleeder while holding the pedal firm pump crack open bleeder pump1,2,3 hold , close bleeder fully, refill the m/c and repeat if the pedal gives way its trapped air or swelling hoses or a leak do not reuse spent brake fluid it has micro air bubbles if the pedal is binding or has wrong length rod from stock check for piston travel comparing to original best of luck
Shouldn't that be...(for manual bleeding) Pump1,2,3 hold Crack open bleeder, thus allowing pedal to go to floor and hold Close bleeder fully and then repeat.
Did you guys even read what I wrote? I don't need instructions on how to bleed brakes. I'm not an idiot. I've gone through three bottles of brake fluid doing just as you said, its pretty dam simple but its not working. Its irritating enough and the some jackhole come on here -uh read the book. This shit ain't in no book. I could of gotten that from the douche bag behind the counter at Autozone.
did you bench bleed the new master? i would check the seals in the master to see if it has a cracked seal or possibly got a nick in one. the symptoms are that of air in system or a bad master.
You #@^&XX guys??? Don't give me any crap...I was responding to PAPERDOG...NOT you! Really great attitude you have. BTW...from YOUR first post: "I've bled the hell out of it and I'm at a point of just complete irritation. I've never had to use a power bleeder before, should I try that?" Sounds like your somewhat interested in BLEEDING to me.
check for grooves worn in the backing plates in the places that the shoes ride on. i have regularly seen this, it causes the edge of the shoes to get hung up. i fill it in with weld and grind flat.
sorry if you are at a loss for solutions now that I know you have perfected the art of bleeding brakes lets move on a firm then goes soft pedal ....right hmmm possible answers? air in system ?... nope its bled right a bunch of times wrong travel of m/c plunger?.... nope its new? I COMPARED EM! leak? ... nope I looked everywhere even inside dash? hoses swelled? ...nope they are new presurized m/c on bench.?...nope its in car now brake lines on m/c wrong front rear xx up ?...... nope ..well pretty sure brake shoe adjusted full out then back a click? I'm sure thats not it wheel cyl's on right corners ..bleeder direction correct.. nope thats not possible check while engine is running (booster check) that is new can't be bad! ??????????????more look like you may have to sell it good luck
I'm a Forward Look owner ('55-'61), but seem to remember some of the '62's also had the 'Total Contact' brakes, meaning; 2 single piston wheel cylinders per front wheel. If so, that's where the problem lies. I have bled mine like crazy, but always had a soft pedal till I learned what to do. Trick is, you have to bleed the upper and lower wheel cylinders separately. Follow the standard order for bleeding brakes, but when you do each front wheel, start with the top cylinder, then do the bottom next before moving to the next wheel. Took me forever, but it can be done (you also need a buddy with gorilla legs if you don't have a bleeder/pump). ~MyDeSoto~
Right on....I mean really...how many times have you smacked yourself in the head for missing something that should have been obvious? I know I've done it too many times to be happy about...but thats the way the old mop flops. BARNETT needs to remember that ANYONE who takes time to post is trying to help him...AND has the added problem of being only linked to the "car" thru a computer screen! We only have suggestions we can offer...not HANDS ON help. Totally uncalled for response from him...but to be fair he must have been a bit stressed out I suppose. Man...he had me hot this morning though! LoL Let us know how you make out with it Barnett.
I'll have to look into that. Right now I'm gonna step away from it for a while before I break something .
LOL I appologize Hacker. I was a bit out of line. I just wasn't looking forward to reading a pissing match about who has the best way to do a simple brake bleeding job. Your right, sometimes something gets missed. But like i said earlier I'm just gonna get away from it for a bit and get back to it when I don't want to set it on fire. Thanks for trying
No problem. She's just messing with you right now. Check out some of those tips the guys have been offering and i bet you'll get it figured out shortly! By all means though...if your hot about it back away for a bit until you can go back with a good frame of mind. Pissed off just makes things go bad on you. (Happens to all of us!)
Please ID the brake system you are working on, the dual wheel cylinder type with the major and minor adjustment cams or the later style self energizing ones. I know Chrysler kept the dual wheel cylinder type from the late 30's to some time in the early 60's So knowing would be helpful. I do know that if the adjustment isn't dead nuts you can get a symptom that mimicks air in the system. The shoes need to be measured to the drums with a gauge like an AMMCO, or a home made on like you can find on the Graham Paige club site repai section. If the major cams are off and you think you have a proper adjustment with the minors, it can be eough to keep the whole system from not working properly. As was mentioned the dual wheel cylinders need to be bleed seperately and in the proper sequece. You also need to have the proper freeplay on the brake pedal. I was also taught to put a block of wood or other spacer under the pedal to keep from bottoming the MC piston while manually bleeding. If it travels to far during pumping, the front edge can become damaged and it will not hold pressure especially at the end of the stroke. If you have the dual wheel cylinder set up read through this 2 or 3 times. http://www40.addr.com/~merc583/mopar/framesets/wipbrakeframeset.html The GP homemade centering tool. If this doesn't apply to your system, perhaps it may assist others.
i am no longer a real mechcanic but i can be one on the internet sometimes just not very well worded or typed
OK so I done a lil bit a digging and came up with something to try. I bought a 10 psi residual valve. Put it in line right after the master. Gives me an awesome pedal! Problem now is the brakes won't release. So I looked around for answers to that. Came up with the pushrod is to long, so I loosened up the master and was gonna shim it first just to see what happens. With the master unmounted the brakes still won't release. This is a total contact system with the duel slaves in the front.
If it's a total contact you already have the answer, bleed the fronts seperately from each other, top then bottom. You don't mention having tried that already. Or better yet, take the damn things off, throw them in the scrap bin, and put some 63, 64, 65-68 brakes on it - the Imperial was the last body-on-frame Chrysler and kept the frame to at least '66 if not '68, it should be relatively easy to adapt the newer, conventional type brakes to one.
Only took me 3 months but I think I have it figured out. It was a combination of push rod length, residual valve and some anti seize on the shoes where I thought they might be hanging up. I was able to drive it around the block a few times today. Thanks everyone!
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