Hello, Im finishing up a blow through 351W swap in my 62 Flareside and ordered a 11” 351W/302 clutch kit for a V8 pattern 3 speed I found. However, I found the clutch Splines were about 4 hundredths too shallow and the pilot bearing inner diameter was too large. My transmission tag has the code HEG AF 016513, the main case code is C5AR7006 C, and the tail case code is C5FR-7AC4C-A CAL-1 does anybody know what this transmission might have come from? From the limited information on the internet it seems like a FE Galaxie. I just want some help or conformation before I start randomly buying clutches and bearings/bushings that I hope work. thank you, Duke
Might check over on the Ford truck site. I thought the short tail stock was used primarily on Ford trucks although some of the HEG's were behind the 390 in the 60's.
The HEG series were used in FE powered Galaxies and Fairlanes /Mustangs, with a shorter 1-3/8" diameter input shaft. Because of the tailshaft shifter mounting bosses, thinking Mustang. @Crazy Steve may offer some insight, but I am thinking you are going to have to change the input shaft to a small block one with the smaller 1-1/16" diameter and like clutch disc.
Ah so it is FE, thank you. Wouldn’t I be able to use a FE 11” clutch disk with a 302 11” pressure plate and just run a turned down bronze bushing; Or is there a difference in clutch thicknesses?
You may have a mish-mash of parts.... I'll make a few comments on the trans. The larger input shaft was pretty much restricted to FEs and some other HiPo applications but may have been used in trucks. You do need to check the length as there's two. The FE used a 1/2" shorter input (6" total, measured from the trans case), with all the difference in the pilot bearing shaft. When used behind a small block, this shaft doesn't fully engage the bushing leading to quick failure. The fix is a steel ball bearing in place of the bronze bushing, commonly available. As to 'what' transmission you have, I'd take the casting/tag numbers with a grain of salt. These are now anywhere from 30 to 50 years old, and may not represent what's actually there if the trans has been rebuilt from more than one trans. Another anomaly is the tailshaft casting number. The third letter 'F' codes out as 'foreign/ trans am'. As I'm reasonably sure that 3-speeds weren't used in trans am racing, who knows what the original application was. Ford did sell these transmissions to other manufacturers at various times. If you have an odd-ball input, this may be why. To the best of my knowledge, the pilot bearing shaft diameter was the same for all Ford cars/light trucks at .665" give-or-take a few thousandths. Same thing goes for the clutch. 11" clutches are rarities in most Fords. In most passenger cars they won't clear the bellhousing, even on the FEs. IIRC, Ford cast a special cast-iron bell for the small blocks to use a 11" clutch but this was a truck-only part. Verify the input shaft diameter (both at the splines and pilot), length, and number of splines, then I'd invest a phone call to a clutch manufacturer to see if you can make it work. I wouldn't count on a parts house coming up with what you may need. Hope this helps....
Thanks so much Steve this helps a lot! I do have the special 11” iron bell housing, but I’ll measure the shaft length and see if I can find a bearing that sticks out enough to make up the difference if there is one. If that’s not feasible, I’ll try swapping out the input shafts for a small block one. Also, I’ll give a call to a clutch manufacturer to see if they offer a FE clutch with the right dimensions; or go to the junk yard and take a look at different clutches that may work. Again, I appreciate your time.
It seems like I could get the top shaft to work. Starting from the mating surface to the end of the top shaft it’s closer to 7”. And using a stick about the same length as the shaft I could get the end fully into the 351W needle pilot bearing that’s currently in there. so I suppose I’ll look for a clutch and a pilot bearing alternative for the smaller diameter shaft end.
With the pilot diameter of your transmission being .590 (15mm), and the output shaft having the "F" letter in it, I'm thinking this transmission is not a Ford car or truck transmission. Didn't Ford provide these transmissions to GM for a little while in the '60s for low production three speed cars? Could it be one of those? As for fitting an 11 inch clutch, that's what I have in my early Fairlane, with the 1965 car aluminum small block bellhousing. So that definitely will work with the right parts.
^^^^ I have to agree with your pics that this looks like a mish-mash of parts. I have a a small block one in storage that I will get out and make some dimension checks.
I have a Ford top loader 3 speed in my car that came out of a 68 Oldsmobile. It has RAT code which was a heavy duty version of the 3.03. It has GM input shaft and GM throw out bearing dimensions.
Dimensions- 10 spline input shaft measures 1.059" diameter, 7" from case to end, and 1.250" shaft length for pilot. With your 1.118" diameter, I am also on board with GM shaft. How many splines do you have?
I remember hearing about Ford producing transmissions for GM. I was looking at different clutch alignment tools and I found a series of GM ones being the most identical with this top shaft diameter, and it also had a similar pilot end diameter.
That’s interesting. I’m using a hydraulic throw out bearing that’s supposed to be designed for a 4 speed top loader by RAM clutches. I had to saw 2 inches or so off the base of it since it was a bit too long. Now it should have enough clearance…at least for a while hopefully.
Thanks for taking the time for the dimensions. It is a 10 spline. After doing some research I believe a GM clutch might fit this. I’m going to order a clutch alignment tool first to confirm the fitment.
I wonder if you can find a pilot bushing that’s correct for the shaft. If too large OD for your crank, have it turned down. If to small OD, have a sleeve made for the bushing to fit he crank. But I’m not a machinist, I just try to not chatter things in my lathe.
That’s a great idea! I was thinking about doing that, but after looking at some ball bearings I found a shielded KOYO that should work solid.
To bring closure and to help anyone else with a similar Ford transmission with this top shaft, I found out that a 11” GM 1 1/8” 10 spline clutch plate will fit the splines on the transmission and will fit into the 11” Ford pressure plate that is used on the engine’s recommended flywheel.
Thanks for the follow up with the disc part number. I think the pilot bearing you need is a 6202 (aka 202, etc.).
I decided to hunt around on the McLeod website and found what I think are the correct parts. Their pilot bushing is part 8-1380-1 Their pilot bearing is part 8-1380-7 Their clutch disc is part 260141 They actually list these parts by size and then give general application, so it is a pretty good site for reference.
Thank you for adding this information. I’ll definitely give a look into it when I buy my next clutch disk. Also, thanks for the pilot bearing number; as Crazy Steve recommended I found a ball bearing that was a perfect substitute for the pilot bearing. It was as easy as typing in the ID, OD, and depth (in mm) on the internet and there’s hundreds of them. It’ll be a lot easier to replace as well compared to the needle bearing before.
The Jalopy Journal
