Hot Rods Clutch woes

Drive it back to the shop that ground the clearance in the housing and take him for a ride. Maybe he will know what it is.

 

I'm thinking now that it maybe the TKO transmission. I've read a lot of "box of rocks" stories and youtube videos in the last couple days that describe the same sound in Tremec transmissions.
Just to remind the readers:
nonrhythmic clanking in gear, driving or on stands. I can feel the clank in the shifter.
No noise running in neutral, clutch engaged (foot off pedal).
No noise with drive shaft removed, running and in any gear.
I was out yesterday, car is still on jack stands, cranked it up and let it run in 3rd gear (sound is most prominent in 3rd) at idle while I searched (AGAIN) for the noise. From inside the car it sound like it's coming from the back (is why I thought it may be the rear axle). But I walked around the front and leaned down at the firewall and I could hear noises coming from the front, that is, the bellhousing to engine area. Noise travels through solid materials in funny ways. I know I torqued the flywheel and clutch to specs.
The transmission is probably 15 (or more) years old but has never been driven but once not counting the jack stand time.
I've checked and adjusted the pinion angle a couple or more times. Even bought a digital angle finder to do it the last time. Set it to the face of the tail housing, Zeroed out the display then adjusted the face of the pinion yoke to that same zero.
I got this trans from Keisler before (obviously) they sold out to Silver Sport.
Another video I watched mentioned the Tremec transmissions use a specific slip yoke.
But they didn't specify other than a T400 ect. is not right.
I can't remember if I got that with the set up I bought from Keisler. It had the trans, flywheel, Bellhousing, clutch and T/O bearing. Pretty sure it came with the slip yoke as well. It seems good and snug in the transmission. Slips with very little wiggle.
One person, (from a google search) said he used some kind of thickener to the trans fluid or a thicker fluid and it cured his issue. But didn't say what. BTW I used the oil specified by Tremec in this transmission. (synchromesh) Maybe try the HD Synchromesh?
I'm afraid to drive it as it is. Trash the trans and it's nearly twice as much (well, considerably more anyway) to buy another one now. But at least I'd find out what is causing the noise...
I got the 5 speed with the idea of driving cross country in it. At my age now, I don't see that happening. Local shows and cruise ins, yeah. Not hundreds of miles.
But that could change if I can get this last (I hope) issue worked out and get some seat time in it.

 

Sounds like a good excuse to drain the synchromesh fluid and at least temporarily refill with straight 30w engine oil or a heavier grade of older style gear lube. At least run it long enough to see if you still get the same noise jacked up in the shop in gear with no load on the drivetrain.

 

My TKO required a run in on atf before swapping in 80/90 ( I think) gear oil. I seem to recall some Tremmecs run on atf though.

Isn't that gm syncromesh fluid essentially atf?

Edit, no its not atf, it's a gear oil. Reputedly gear oils don't come any better that that for manual transmissions.

Chris

 

This might sound really stupid but from the noise on your vid there’s only 3 things I can think that have that sort of ring and I think youve ruled two of them out.

When youve had the driveshaft out have you given it a shake to see if there’s anything loose inside it?

 

Not specifically, but I've had the driveshaft out so many times I think I'd heard something moving inside.
However, it doesn't make that noise when the shaft is out. So maybe I need to have that checked for...everything. Cracks, balance etc. Though I can't see any visual sign of the driveshaft shaking or vibrating enough to make a sound like that. BTW brand new custom made driveshaft by a driveshaft spe******t.
It seems to only make the noise when coasting, or decelerating, at idle in gear. Give it some gas and it seems to disappear.
OH, here's another, perhaps clue. Engine off, in gear, on stands and I rotate the back wheel, forward and back, stop to stop, I hear that noise (though not as loud). In neutral, no noise and the back wheels rotate freely (of course).

To other responders: My instructions said nothing about swapping to 80/90 after break-in. Though, I maybe ought to read that again to verify.
Thanks guys for sticking with me on this. It's now 2 years I've had the car together and (I thought) ready to drive and I have a whole maybe 1/2 mile of driving time.

 

My other suggestion is something hitting the flywheel or crownwheel which I thought you’d discounted but from your description above it sounds like that could certainly be a possibility.

I’ve never heard a gearbox sound like that, they just don’t have anything that’d make that ringing noise.

Here’s an idea; get a helper and repeat your test as above turning the wheel in gear and press the clutch down. And also do the same with the driveshaft locked (screwdriver through the UJ)

 

Pilot bushing/bearing slop? Bad pilot bearing? I'm out of guesses....I guess

 

I believe that is what I would do. Get an outside opinion from a guy with experience and fresh ear that can actually listen to the noise first hand. Maybe what ever he ground needs more grinding?

 

Have you had a look in the diff lately?

 

A mechanics stethoscope is your friend. Very inexpensive.

Chris

 

I would think if it's anything inside the bellhousing it would do it any time with the engine running, but I will try that. Though I'm not clear on what locking the driveshaft will reveal.
HappyDaze: Good idea. I have one. This thing has me so confused I can't think straight.
Wanderlust: Yes. I just had a spe******t ($$) go through the whole thing last month (Feb).
GeneKoning: I know or am acquainted with a number of experienced car guys/hot rodders in this area (Several of the Memphis Rodders and Memphis Streetrods).
Seems they don't have time for me. Granted, they all live an hour or more from where I live. I'm north of Memphis and they are all south (N. MS) or way east.
When I get time, (lots of Spring-time prep around the house and grounds to do now) I'll see if one will let me bring it (trailer it) to their shop. It will run and drive but not knowing just what that noise is, I don't want to get halfway there and have a catastrophic failure on the interstate. At anytime in Memphis.
Wait...there is one guy that just lives around the corner (a country corner, that is) from me. I've only met him a couple times but he seems to be a good guy. He's been working on cars and hotrods as long as I have. I can't even remember his name, off hand, but I have his number. It's worth a shot.

 

OK, the yard work (mostly) done before it started raining again.
I got back out in the shop yesterday and found my stethoscope.
I cranked up the car and put it in gear and sadly it hasn't fixed itself...
I listened to different places and the noise is loudest at the front of the transmission and the bellhousing area. I've watched numerous YT videos that have the same noise but none have a fix. Some say "that's normal" (surely not), most give no decisive answer.
One talked about a light weight flywheel (I am using an aluminum flywheel) causing the gears to fluctuate back and forth from lack of rotating m***, making the noise.
I figure I have two routes to try:
Pull the engine and transmission (AGAIN) and take the trans to a spe******t or
drain the trans and put heavier oil in it and try that.
I know which one is the easiest...so...I'll let you know.

 

Getting warmer, both the weather and chasing the issue! You have a trailer? Why not trailer it to a good trans shop(s). You might get lucky and it's no real cost to try / ask.

Chris

 

I've never been inside one of these transmissions. But I'm guessing there are maybe several places where there are specifications for end play clearances, especially for the counter gear. I'd check that closely, as well as any other areas where maybe a few small clearances can add up to too much overall end play. (stack clearance?)

 

Well, the change of oil didn't help. One local hotrod acquaintance said he could steer me to someone to check out the transmission. I guess I'll pull it and take it there.
I pulled the trans by itself once. I can't really get the car up high enough to use a trans jack. And it was a booger bear to do without one.
I don't have a lift. Of course then I'd have to have a trans jack for a lift and a new building to put the lift in...
I found it easier in the long run to pull the engine/trans together. I've gotten pretty good at it over the last couple years having done it 12 times already. I can have it out in a day. What's one more time? It's still a pain though.
I've watched several rebuild videos, but none have mentioned this problem. Just straight rebuilds. They have mentioned countershaft/cluster gear shimming is important...duh...

 

On page 2 you mentioned you had a hard time seating the trans against the bellhouse, you had to use a wrench and evenly tighten the trans bolts to bring the trans and bellhouse together. I'd check if the pilot bushing is fully seated in the crank or maybe it's too long and making contact with the teeth on the trans input shaft. That contact could be binding up the input shaft bearing which may be the noise your hearing.