Coker tire: Wtf? Fine print!

CNC-Dude · Aug 20, 2013

ratman said: ↑

The biggest discovery I have made (AND DONT FLAME ME) I put 5oz of Dyna beads in each wheel. I was a disbeliever from the get go on this product but I have to eat my words. Its a completely different car, silky smooth ride no vibrations should have done it 5 years ago.
Click to expand...

Maybe they should send several pounds of these magic beads out with each set of tires they sell.

Hookedtrout · Aug 20, 2013

tfeverfred said: ↑

If I walked in and bought a set and carried them home (uninstalled), then came back 3 years later and said I had a problem with them, what would you do?
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If I owned the business here's what I'd do.

Ask what kind of rod you were building to break the ice. Ask what the problem is. Do my best to understand the issue. Determine if it's an issue as a company we have faced before and already have a clear understanding about. Work with the customer to come to a good understanding of how to best resolve the issue.

Hot Rod Ron · Aug 20, 2013

TERPU said: ↑

There is another aspect to this. I'm not questioning you or Coker. But here is what I have found after using 4 sets of Coker tires. Blackwall and Whitewall.

The first set I mounted had a terrible shake. WTF was my response as well. After numerous balancing tries without re-beading the tire or letting the air out of the tube still shimmy and a ton of weights.

I was so pissed off I was ready to throw the tires away. Let all the air out of them and went to dismount them myself because I was tired of throwing money away.

On the first tire I noticed the rim and the tire were not concentric. The bead was up higher on one side than the other and the valve stem was not centered on the dot? Well a tire which is beaded wrong will never balance as it's always out of round.

So I cooled off and realized when the tires were aired up by myself I hadn't paid attention to the bead seat. Totally my fault. I re-set all the tires and Viola no more shimmy. A shitload less weight for balance as well.

The next three sets I practiced this method-

When the tires come to you they are taped flat for shipping, this needs to be relaxed prior to mounting. Set the tires in the sun with the tubes in them. Air the tubes up to 20# and let them sit over night after warming in the sun. This makes them bead easier and are alot easier to mount. When you mount them make sure the tire and the bead are even all the way around. This is really improtant on the Bias plys we love. It might take a couple tries but make this happen. You will be suprised at how big a difference this makes. The tire is alot happier when it travels in the same circle as the rim. I have been happy with my Cokers since being alot more careful with the installation procedure.

Buy some tire irons and an old bead breaker and do this yourself. Modern Tire guys just don't care, or know about this. The machine is trained to do all the thinking in these shops. You will be happier in the long run, and your new rims won't get scratched either. Also Dyna Beads really do work miracles.

One last thing to check is your rims for runout. Alot of the rims we buy today at swap meets, junkyards, and from buddies are off a car for a reason. Make a rim tester out of an old spindle and drum. A piece or wire is all you need to see if it runs true. This is the start of alot of our problems, and it isn't the tire after all.

All the best,

Tim
Click to expand...

Bam there it is right there.

I have been running cokers on my builds for over ten years and yea you have too screw around with them. That is no different than building the car in the first place. I have delt with Jess personally and he was great to deal with and was fair in everything that I had issues with. look though my history to see the post I did on my tire failure and you will see what the outcome was.

Hookedtrout · Aug 20, 2013

I think the biggest issue I see is the fact that the problem appears to be cleary identified and isn't anything new, its an ongoing issue. Can it be resolved in manufacturing? If not why? If it can't it sounds like the tires need to come with a warning so the consumer understands what they are getting into.

raprap · Aug 20, 2013

I carefully read all of the posts here. In the year 2000, I replaced the bias ply tires on my Chevy with Radial Wide Whitewalls. I did a lot of looking, asking and searching. Coker's name was always at the top of the list. I heard of a new manufactuer called Diamond Back Tires from a wheel maker called Pete Paulsen out in California. I bought my wheels from Pete. I asked if he would use these new tires and he told me " If you buy them and you don't like them, I will give you your money back" This was from a complete stranger and a wheel maker! I purchased those tires in 2000 and after 10,000+ miles on them, I had one belt bad. I called up Diamond Back and they said send it back to us and if the belt is bad, we'll replace it. Free!
Long story short, they replaced the tire and they are still on the car. 13 years and 30,000+ miles!

I've never had Coker tires but the Diamond Backs are running real good.

1930-coupe · Aug 20, 2013

I've averaged a set of year for the past decade. I can't think of any issues I've ever had. People forget these are bias tires and not modern perfectly made radials. Kind of funny really.

db300 · Aug 20, 2013

You replace a set of tires a year for the last 10?! What are you running and how many miles are you getting out of them?

tfeverfred · Aug 20, 2013

db300 said: ↑

You replace a set of tires a year for the last 10?! What are you running and how many miles are you getting out of them?
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No shit. I wouldn't brag about replacing a set a year, unless I was getting 30,000 miles in a year out of them.

Buzznut · Aug 20, 2013

tfeverfred said: ↑

If I walked in and bought a set and carried them home (uninstalled), then came back 3 years later and said I had a problem with them, what would you do?
Click to expand...

That would be a tough one. I would refer you to the manufacturer since I didn't install the tires. If I were to install tires out of my inventory with a 3 year old DOT number, the manufacturer would honor the warranty, but they would also let me know that I was pushing it installing a tire that old.

I'm not pointing to this one issue as being the only indicator, I'm using the overwhelming number of personal accounts as an indicator of a larger issue regarding the quality of the product.

tfeverfred · Aug 20, 2013

Hookedtrout said: ↑

If I owned the business here's what I'd do.

Ask what kind of rod you were building to break the ice. Ask what the problem is. Do my best to understand the issue. Determine if it's an issue as a company we have faced before and already have a clear understanding about. Work with the customer to come to a good understanding of how to best resolve the issue.
Click to expand...

And in my mind, that would lead to a good resolution for both of us. Now, what if you read "Your tires suck!" by a customer with nothing but a bad experience and no data to back that up?

What I'm getting to is, I don't want to read what a bitching, whining customer has to say. I'd want to read about a problem and the out come after a talk with the seller. The bottom line is in ALL things manufactured, there are going to be bad examples and maybe bad runs entirely. It's how the company handles the issue that gets my attention.

I like to see the whole picture. A lot of the negative posts on this thread, don't explain what the resolution was or what conversations they had with Coker. As a future buyer, I still have not heard a valid reason why I shouldn't buy them. If someone's going to call out a tire company that makes MILLIONS of tires in a year, they need to step up with some serious facts about the entire experience, if they are issuing a warning.

"(Fill in the blank) tires, WTF?" doesn't mean a thing to me.

Buzznut · Aug 20, 2013

And I agree completely...diplomacy and cool heads make the process go much smoother.

I'd still like an answer as to how the rate of defective tires is so much higher with Coker than on average. Are these made in China to Coker "specs"? What is the underlying problem... To me, THAT is the real question here.

Inline · Aug 20, 2013

To make it clear, I am not trying to defend Coker nor am I trying to complain about them. I have personally worked as an engineer designing bias race tires for almost a decade. It has always been a continuous fight to get a round bias tire and there are always a large number of tires scrapped each run do to uniformity. I am sure that Coker, or whomever Coker has build their tires, have the same issues. A bias ply constructed tire is extremely difficult to produce to todays consumers expectations. Radial tires are considered one of the biggest single most automotive inventions for a reason. When Michelin introduced the radial tire in the 60s, bias tire production was immediately antiquated. Most of us, myself included, have primarily driven on radial tires our entire lives and have come to expect that level of ride and performance out of our tires.even on an inferior bias tire.

For those not familiar with tire construction, it is important to realize that a tire is assembled much like an engine or a transmission. The single key difference is that instead of using bolts, rubber is what holds everything together. The plies, usually made of nylon or polyester, are what handle the forces of air pressure, vehicle load, cornering, etc. and the bead wire locks everything together. A bias tire is built on a tire building drum that is slightly smaller diameter than the bead diameter. Whether the finished tire OD is 21, 25 or 30, a 15 bead bias tire is built on a roughly 15 diameter drum. This means that the center of the tire has to expand radially in the curing mold to the finished OD. In some cases, there is a ridiculously amount of deformation and distortion of the plies in doing this. As you can imagine, there is also a tremendous amount of internal tension. This distortion is partly what makes a bias tire prone to having an out of roundness condition.

I am not saying that it is impossible to build a round bias ply tire, but in the smaller quantity runs that I am sure Coker produces of each size, it certainly makes it more difficult. By the time that individuals building the tires have a chance to get everything dialed in, the production run can be over.

Like many of you, I prefer the look of a bias tire over a radial on a traditional car. I have had several sets of Coker tires over the years and too have had fought with out of round conditions and flatspots. I have several close friends that have had similar issues. Would I still buy a Coker tire? Certainly, because the fact of the matter is that until recently, there really has not been another company that has produced a similar product. As for the price increase on tires, it is not specific to Coker. All tire manufactures have increased their prices mainly due to the increased demand of the raw components of synthetic rubber. The two major components of synthetic rubber being petroleum and carbon black.

Slick Willy, I am actually surprised that Coker did anything for you on a 3 year old tire.

5window · Aug 20, 2013

tfeverfred said: ↑

My latte was too hot this morning. I'm going to sue.
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Damn, if you drink latte instead of real coffee you deserve to get burned. That's kind of like saying "I drink Bud Light".

Buzznut · Aug 20, 2013

That explains that...

Kevin Lee · Aug 20, 2013

Buzznut said: ↑

I typically see 1 in 100 on the cheap, no name tires and 1 in 500 to 1 in 1000 on the brand names. The reported Coker failure/defect rate is far too high of a ratio.
Click to expand...

I'm thinking .02% for a "brand name" seems really high. Do you have a source for that number outside of what you typically see or is it all based on your day-to-day work?

Also, can you quantify Coker's ratio? Are you installing a lot of Coker tires? And if not, what is your source there?

Ol Skool '51 · Aug 20, 2013

buckd said: ↑

2 words::: DIAMOND BACK
Click to expand...

I'll second that !
Years ago I bought a set of wide whites for my '40 Ford from Coker, no problem, ordered and paid for them over the phone and picked them up at the spring Carlisle parts meet a week later. A few years later I tried to buy another set for my '50 Ford and got treated like sh*t over the phone, they could care less if I bought them or not...so I didn't. Went to Diamond back, same tires were in my garage a week later, no problems for two + years now. They sit for months without moving (during the winter) and have been run in excess of 100mph the next summer, no problems (but they are radials).
I'll never do business with Coker again, bet that'll teach em' .

1959apache · Aug 20, 2013

bump for my post count

since this thread has turned into a coker bitch fest on both sides of the aisle

Buzznut · Aug 20, 2013

Kevin Lee said: ↑

I'm thinking .02% for a "brand name" seems really high. Do you have a source for that number outside of what you typically see or is it all based on your day-to-day work?

Also, can you quantify Coker's ratio? Are you installing a lot of Coker tires? And if not, what is your source there?
Click to expand...

It is based on day-to-day work, but honestly, a lot of the tires that the customers scream about and demand warranty could be considered user inflicted damage. Curbing a tire, or hitting a pothole really hard will cause a tire to separate. If you can see the impact scar/mark on the tire you can typically explain to the customer that the damage was driver inflicted, however, if the impact occurred on the tread portion of the tire and has since worn off due to road wear, then you can't prove impact damage. I would guess that the percentage is much lower...

As far as Coker tires go, we don't sell them and don't install them very often, but of the ones we have installed, I've yet to see one that is perfectly round. I'm taking into account my experience along with the overwhelming number of similar experiences on this thread and amongst fellow hot rodders and car buddies...it's a 50/50 crap shoot, and that may be generous.

I've spoken my peace...I don't have anything more to contribute here. I think everyone, and Coker, can take this thread for what it's worth. Either quality improves and consumers consume, or quality continues to fail and consumers go elsewhere. Economics 101...

Slick Willy · Aug 20, 2013

tfeverfred said: ↑

And in my mind, that would lead to a good resolution for both of us. Now, what if you read "Your tires suck!" by a customer with nothing but a bad experience and no data to back that up?

What I'm getting to is, I don't want to read what a bitching, whining customer has to say. I'd want to read about a problem and the out come after a talk with the seller. The bottom line is in ALL things manufactured, there are going to be bad examples and maybe bad runs entirely. It's how the company handles the issue that gets my attention.

I like to see the whole picture. A lot of the negative posts on this thread, don't explain what the resolution was or what conversations they had with Coker. As a future buyer, I still have not heard a valid reason why I shouldn't buy them. If someone's going to call out a tire company that makes MILLIONS of tires in a year, they need to step up with some serious facts about the entire experience, if they are issuing a warning.

"(Fill in the blank) tires, WTF?" doesn't mean a thing to me.
Click to expand...

If this is directed at me, the op, then I am sorry. I have listed the outcome from Coker. I didn't believe I was bitching and whining. I was merely trying to get across the fact that I was charged when I "felt" that the tires were being replaced for nothing for being a manufacturers defect.

woodiewagon46 · Aug 20, 2013

Jess Hoodenpyle, VP Sales and Customer Service, Coker Tire, where were you when I had a serious problem with all four Cokers on my car and complained at Hershey and was told "Sorry our tires are not for Drivers, Show cars only!!! I purchased Diamondbacks and I am very happy with them.

TANNERGANG · Aug 20, 2013

COKER 4..............EVERYONE ELSE 259................I'd call it a draw and lets move one to another subject..............we've beat this dog to death, and I love to beat a bad dog.

blowby · Aug 20, 2013

The folks at Diamond Back must be clanking their beer glasses.

2racer · Aug 20, 2013

TANNERGANG said: ↑

COKER 4..............EVERYONE ELSE 259................I'd call it a draw and lets move one to another subject..............we've beat this dog to death, and I love to beat a bad dog.
Click to expand...

What's the best way to wash new white walls?...any brand

TANNERGANG · Aug 20, 2013

Steel wool sos pads

BLUDICE · Aug 20, 2013

this is why I had to settle for some cheap narrow white wall tires-
didnt want to go thru a possible night mare like this-
you look back a couple years on here and you'll find Coker issues popping up way too often.

Surfcityrocker · Aug 20, 2013

Inline said: ↑

 A bias ply constructed tire is extremely difficult to produce to today’s consumer’s expectations. Radial tires are considered one of the biggest single most automotive inventions for a reason. When Michelin introduced the radial tire in the 60’s, bias tire production was immediately antiquated. Most of us, myself included, have primarily driven on radial tires our entire lives and have come to expect that level of ride and performance out of our tires….even on an inferior bias tire.

For those not familiar with tire construction, it is important to realize that a tire is assembled much like an engine or a transmission. The single key difference is that instead of using bolts, rubber is what holds everything together. The plies, usually made of nylon or polyester, are what handle the forces of air pressure, vehicle load, cornering, etc. and the bead wire locks everything together. A bias tire is built on a tire building drum that is slightly smaller diameter than the bead diameter. Whether the finished tire OD is 21”, 25” or 30”, a 15” bead bias tire is built on a roughly 15” diameter drum. This means that the center of the tire has to expand radially in the curing mold to the finished OD. In some cases, there is a ridiculously amount of deformation and distortion of the plies in doing this. As you can imagine, there is also a tremendous amount of internal tension. This distortion is partly what makes a bias tire prone to having an out of roundness condition.

I am not saying that it is impossible to build a round bias ply tire, but in the smaller quantity runs that I am sure Coker produces of each size, it certainly makes it more difficult. By the time that individuals building the tires have a chance to get everything dialed in, the production run can be over.
Click to expand...

Among all the bitching and moaning this is one of the few reasonable postings in this thread.
I bought my first 4 WW bias ply Goodrich tires some months ago directly from Cokers. I am located in Europe, so additionally to the purchase price I had to pay the shipper and customs.
I knew I only had one chance because sending back one or more defective tires from Europe to the US would not have been an option.

I brought the tires with new rims to my tire shop (which is an old tire shop with some experience) and they had to use 1 oz on one pair and 3 oz on the second pair to get them balanced.

When I asked the tire man if the 3 oz were a problem and if I should order a new pair his advise was to keep them: "With bias plies you can never be sure if they need 1 or maybe 4 oz to get them balanced. They are not defective, it's the way they are made."

So I kept my tires and so far I am very happy with them. No wobble, no problems, great looks.

gwhite · Aug 20, 2013

If you don't like Cokers (I've never had a problem with them) there are alternative bias plys...Lucas, Goodyear, General, Bedford, Universal, and Denman (if you can find some from their last run).

Radial tires look like crap on a period rod/custom IMO.

Slick Willy · Aug 20, 2013

ooof...Ive tried reasonably to get my point across. I think in some way, to some, it has but to too many this thread has turned into a hate or hug fest which I should have expected being around here as much as I have been...

In the last 24 hours I've learned even more now about the tire industry and their standards and policies. Although I don't agree with some of them, they are their policies.

Will I use Coker again? Of course.

With that being said, I asked Ryan to close this thread.

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