I hear you on the pre lube Joe..... I'm gona have to wing it, I'm mounted in the frame and upside down is really not an option. Many of the guys above said that I haven't done any damage so I'm gona hope that's the case. Hopefully the piston stop helps me dial in the 120 degrees after TDC and I wont have to do much more turning Thank you for your input
Thats correct. If he is looking for TDC on the combustion stroke, then all he has to do is watch for the intake valve to open and close and keep rotating till his marks align again. Compression stroke will always follow the closing of the intake valve. The intake valve stem is the one that aligns with the intake port. Thats not meant as a jab .........someone new to working on an engine may not realize something that more experienced builders take for granted. I remember not knowing the answer to that exact question when I was young.
Basically you screw it in and rotate slowly till the piston touches. Adjust (back the stop up) slightly and continue turning the crank till it touches again. Then do the same thing again. When you get to the point where it doesn't touch the stop, you have gone too far. Now back the crank up a quarter turn and screw the stop down a couple turns. Doing that allows you to get the stopping point of the piston closer to TDC.....so when you make your marks, there is not a big distance between them and less chance of error. Watch your intake valve go down then back up and when you get to your mark it will be on the compression stroke. If its not on the compression stroke, simply make one more full rotation to the mark. Any time you rotate a dry engine, metal to metal rubbing will occur. Fortunately, any engine builder will/should have put assembly lube on the crank bearings. Its thicker than oil and should cling longer, so probably no problem, but its much better to force oil in before rotating, then you know for sure. As for the cam lube....if its a new cam and new flat tappet lifters, I would pull the intake and put new "cam" lube on the lobes shortly before starting the engine. Camshafts going bad during breakin are the leading cause of ruined engines, so don't take any chances. If you have a roller camshaft, then probably no problem.
When I pre-oiled my Desoto Hemi I had a friend that turned the assembly by hand S L O W L Y while I ran the 1/2" drill on high. He made two complete revolutions and when I pulled the number one plug to set the distributor, the plug tube was soaking wet with break in oil.
Appreciate everyone's input on this. I don't want to be turning this motor, but the reason I am....SLOWLY, is I am trying locate the cam oiling holes for pre-priming so the rocker tubes are full of oil before I start this beast. I'll reiterate... apparently the holes are phased properly for the drivers side bank when the number 1cly is 120 degrees past TDC and the for passenger side bank when # 6 cly at TDC. I haven't gone at the passenger side yet but I can not seem to dial in at that 120 past TDC. I've been watching the valves, bringing the piston up until she stops, measuring 120 degrees with a Hot Heads damper tape and for the life of me can't find that sweet spot.
Theres now way to know if the cam grinder drilled the holes at the same locations as what has been list above, so get in the ball park, say 90* past, start the drill motor and slowly turn the crank while watching the rockers. When the holes line up, you will see bubbles and/or oil flowing. If you don't see any oil after making two complete rotations, start thinking about cam bearings being in the wrong location.
I got it! Did just that.... turned it slowly while spinning the pump. Got both sides. Question..... turning crank clockwise, the numbers on the damper as it comes around clock wise go down...40, 30, 20, 10 ?? Is something backwards about this?
Hi Tim... Happy New Year. Ok so help me to understand this. So the #1 pistion comes up, TDC. As the damper continues turn clockwise, wouldn't it be after TDC. Could you elaborate? Thanks in advance. I'm 67 but feel like I'm 14. LOL
If they come round after TDC and go down then the pulley isn’t marked right. It’s not you!! Is the pulley marked with a sticker or engraved? Is there an actually TDC mark on the pulley? Do you know where TDC is without reference to the pulley? Have you got the right cylinder as no1? happy new year.
Coop, beautiful engine, glad you got it prelubed. I am not trying to put you down in any way, but if you have questions like this and the timing tape question, I'd suggest finding an experienced wingman for the fire up. There are a dozen things to pay attention to and know if they are annoying, disturbing or cause for immediate shut down. Timing tape. The balancer turns clockwise when viewed from the front. TDC is normally a groove in the balancer, and a pointer on the front cover. Any timing marks on the pointer will be counterclockwise. EXAMPLE 10 BTDC is going to be roughly a half inch before the groove reaches the TDC pointer. Any timing marks on the balancer are going to be clockwise. EXAMPLE 10 BTDC on the balancer is going to align with the pointer roughly a half inch before the groove aligns with the pointer. In fact, if the pointer has timing marks, the 10 tape balancer is going to align with the 0 pointer and the groove is going to align with the 10 mark on the pointer.
Ok...I think I got it. Here's a picture. 40, 30, 20, 10 BTDC. TDC is the shinny spot. Anything past TDC is after TDC. That is how I was measuring with the tape 120 degrees after that TDC mark. Another question.... stamped metal piece between the damper and the timing cover. What is that? And should it spin?
Look at this degree wheel, it will let you understand the numbers. https://www.blocklayer.com/degree-wheeleng
And this is where the oil holes lined up for the drivers side bank. Since going clockwise coming up to the 90 I figured this was like 50 but I guess it was 110 /120. I guess I'm all turned around backwards
Rod....not taking it that way at all. A motor man I am not. I'm a fabricator / bodyman. I do have an excellent experienced Hemi friend who will be doing the start up. Thank you for your input and diagrams. Much appreciated!
Been following along here but haven't memorised all the nuances! I'm curious as to why the paint has been removed in the tdc region. If the marking was presumably in the verified true position is it not now lost? If tdc wasn't in the painted marked position, shouldn't it not now be (re)marked somehow, eg centerpunched? Without this clear marking I'm struggling to see how 120 degrees for oil priming can be accurately achieved. Just curious, or missing the point ( no pun intended). Chris
This stuff is a basic foundation for understanding how an engine works. TDC is Top Dead Center. That is when the piston is at the top of it's travel in the cylinder. The piston's travel is limited by the crankshaft and connecting rod.
Your degree marks are correct. You need to think of it as crank position in relation to TDC. So the 30 mark when lined up with the pointer is 30 degrees before TDC, as you rotate the crank clockwise the 20BTDC mark passes the pointer then the 10BTDC. You then reach TDC and as you pass TDC you transition to after TDC and reach the 10ATDC. Hope that makes sense.
Tim, That makes sense to me thank you. Once I had my #1 up at TDC I was measuring from that point with the Hot Heads tape counter clock wise 120 degrees but could not find the spot. The spot that did work it is show in the attached picture. Isn't this about 110 but BTDC ???? The spot was supposed to be ATDC. That's why I'm concerned
You keep going back and questioning the exact degrees. This is not something that needs to be 'clocked', 'timed' or 'exact' to function properly. On a running engine, it just allows a small amount of oil to pass to the upper valvetrain each revolution rather than full time oiling. Stop worrying that it isn't aligned at an exact point.
Stock parts, set up at the factory with no revisions or changes. Okay, question it, but it's function is not rotation location dependent. Throw in 65+ years, aftermarket parts with who knows what was used as a blank or just made different, cam timing that may be advanced or retarded, and a set of timing marks you took many explanations to figure out. How does a sur-grip work? It just does
What about that formed gold colored piece between the damper and the timing cover. What is that? And should it spin?
The gold colored 'cup' holds the felt dust cover; it is fixed to the damper hub. The felt keeps garbage away from the lip seal, be sure to use it. As for the cam oiling holes, TDC on pass side and 255° crank degrees on driver side. Projects - Quick hemi question | Page 2 | The H.A.M.B. (jalopyjournal.com)
I'd also double check the timing tape length against the actual size of the harmonic balancer, if you are using the original balancer it may not coincide with a standard timing tape.
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