Well, I am looking for inspirational pics of Mopar motors. I have a '56 sbc and an Algon injection manifold that i was going to put in my '18 Dodge Bros Roadster...but I don't have everything to run the Algon yet and was thinking of moving it out and going Mopar exclusively on the car (well....maybe not every bit and piece, I have a cool Kaiser wheel that I am using for sure). So, what is out there in terms of cool non-hemi motorvation to run in this thing? What are you running? Any pics? Curious as to what turns up... True
I have a Plymouth 260 Poly motor that I will be using in a '23 Dodge coupe. It is the same basic block as the 241 HEMI but with different heads. As far as I know the black parts all adapt. I also have a new Offy 3x2 intake for it. Sorry no pics.
Don't discount the LA-series motors. Car Craft got 400 pump-gas horsepower out of a 318 not too long ago using junkyard parts. That would move an '18 Dodge along right nicely and dressed up properly would certainly look the part. Get a set of cheapie stamped valve covers and some old DeSoto emblems, combine the two and use the right aircleaner and you'll have a powerful little retro looking mill.
The poly has already been mentioned, throw the 426 and 413 wedge in the mix. I was origianlly going to slam a 440 in my '23 coupe before I sold out for a different project. Still got the big block. Any number of small blocks, most don't count as trad but that are good mills. A slant 6 would be different, and it comes stock with a long ram (of sorts).
Coolest would be '56 Fury poly 303 with factory alum dual quad... Hot motor.... I have seen 3 for sale in the last 2 months. Or perhaps a cross ram early 60's setup that Chrysler and Dodge used on wedge motors... Both would be $$$. Both may be unrealistic becuase of price but if you keep an eye out you may get lucky. Hyfire
Cross Ram big block (look for early '60s Chrysler 300) 354 Poly from a low-mid grade '57-58 Chrysler, like a Windsor Slant Six Australian Hemi Six
What gas sez. Here's a pic of the early poly; please excuse the undetailed engine bay; that's being changed as you read this. Early Chrysler scalloped cover polys were available in the following displacements: 301 - '55 331 - '56 354 - '57 - '58 There were 4 bbl versions available, with peak stock power of 295 HP for the Saratoga - none too shabby for a hemi, let alone a polymotor! Hemi cams and hemi intakes are bolt-in options, so building up a hot early poly capable of 350-375 HP is fairly easy to do with a Hot Hemis tunnel ram intake, aftermarket cam, and some mild port work. Real driveable setup, real reliable, and LOTS cheaper than a Hemi build.
How about a hopped up flat six. That would look great in there and would probably move it along pretty well. BloodyKnuckles
I'm by far not the world's renowned expert on the matter but I'm thinking that the hemi intake isn't going to work. Unless I'm mistaken the hemi head is wider.
Pork - I have a 301 poly. Intakes cracked - I took all the measurements, and the hemi manifold is a complete drop-in. I have a 354 hemi manifold on the shop bench right now - same port-to-port dimension, same 78 degree intake angle. I bought 301 poly intake gaskets; they line up perfectly. Hemi head and poly head bolt up to the same block; the poly head has a big-assed (about a half-inch) shoulder above the rocker arm cover, and another half-inch shoulder between the bottom of the cover and the exhaust port. The two shoulders, along with the rocker cover, are the width of a hemi.
See for that very reason I said I wasn't a world renowned expert. I was thinking that because on the hemi the valves were directly across from eachother and on the poly that are canted that the head would be wider. Now that makes Lumpies build easier. Lumpy has an original 2x4 poly from a '58 Fury, but the intake got itself sold, now there's an alternative.
a fitty-eight Fury has a different engine architecture than a '58 Chrysler. Chryslers had wider bore-to-bore dimensions, and Plymouth had switched over to the LA block by 1958, while Chrysler soldiered on one more year before going to the wedge head B and RB block configs. The intake swap between the poly and the hemi is only good for Chryslers, as far as I know. Back in the back old days of motordom, everyone's engine was different - even in the same company!
I think you'll find the LA small blocks are the best bet. The polys & big blocks are just too big for an '18 model, & the sixes are too long. Not that I don't believe it's possible to put them in, mind you... ;^p ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver" I don't take shit; I don't give a shit. I'm not in the shit business.
Do you still have those mock up pics of the '23? It is actually sitting in my garage. I need some inspiration pics.
"Pork - I have a 301 poly. Intakes cracked - I took all the measurements, and the hemi manifold is a complete drop-in. I have a 354 hemi manifold on the shop bench right now - same port-to-port dimension, same 78 degree intake angle. I bought 301 poly intake gaskets; they line up perfectly. Hemi head and poly head bolt up to the same block; the poly head has a big-assed (about a half-inch) shoulder above the rocker arm cover, and another half-inch shoulder between the bottom of the cover and the exhaust port. The two shoulders, along with the rocker cover, are the width of a hemi." So, does that technically mean a log manifold for a HEMI will bolt up to a poly? Cuz I'm thinking a six carb Poly 354 would look BAD ASS and not break the bank like an early HEMI would. Jay
I would vote for the flathead six or a slant/6. Pete's engine pictured below would be period correct and plenty of torque and power. A balanced flathead with a cam, some milling on the head, decked block, stainless valves, dual or triple carbs, or supercharged with dual exhaust will do amazing things. You can get them up to 265 ci and they will bolt up to a T-5 od tranny to boot. The slant/6 can have the same buildup and end up being a solid rod engine. With the right dress up bits it has a uniquely cool look on both sides of the engine bay. I've got one going into my Suburban wagon, and a flathead set aside for a 29 Plymouth highboy I'm working on as well. Lot's of good info on the p15-d24 forum, slantsix.org, and inliners international.
First LA motor was the early 60's 273. Polly motors are not all the same, early ones interchange parts with their HEMI counterparts and late ones do not. 66 was the last year for any polly motor, a 318 and not to be confused with the similar but not the same 67 318 LA motor. For my money, you couldn't go wrong with a B (350, 361, 383, 400) or RB (383, 413, 426, 440) and a set of long rams (30" over the rocker cover carb mounting) or it's 20" (looks almost the same, but with partially siamesed ports) counterpart. Looks great with a couple of AFB's or you could be sneaky and mount throttle bodies where the carbs would mount and hide the mounting bungs for injectors under the ram tubes to convert to fuel injection, with most people being none the wiser. One of the east coast hot rodding magazines featured an article on a channeled fenderless roadster with this very setup (carbed of course) back in the sixties.
Here is an interesting 265 Mopar flatty (if yer motor is a flathead how come yer sparkplugs are slated) linked to a 350 automatic (Wil Cap) in a chopped down coupe speedster. I like the air cleaner housings.
Cast my vote for the mid 60's 318 Poly. They have character, and the list of interchangable parts with the LA series is endless. They aren't that expensive to build(compared to an LA), and it's honest reliable motorvation. Regardless of what you choose, I'm glad to hear you're considering something other than a SBC. Just remember, MOPAR-my own personal adrenaline rush!
First off....Thanks, Took a while to get it rolling but one can always count on the Mopar crowd to come out fairly vigorously. I must say up front that I love the little 56 sbc I have hanging around and a cool old Fuelie setup would be really cool....however, I have a friend that could really use the small block and I am sure I have a few friends on the board that might be interested in the old Algon. I have access to a few flathead 6s here in town but they just aren't what I want to run, too asymetrical, and the slants, just not what I am looking for. The smaller polys are starting to sound about right....good looks, better wallet impact and reliable. The '18 will be running a quarter elliptical front end and I would like to run a smaller block to keep the weight down (otherwise I would be making a move on a dual quad 413 out of a temporarily stalled '62 300 H project). Soooooo, refining the parameters, small block, v8 poly, preferably 50s vintage. And feel free to make other interesting mopar suggestions, I must have 3 pedals on this one and am looking at a stripped down, salt flats style with airplane influences, highboy (cuz my frame is cool) roadster with no deck lid (until I can finally find one). and keep in mind that this is actually a long car despite the age...the Dodge roadsters are much longer and a bit wider than their Ford counterparts from even 9 or 10 years later. True
Ahh come on, go for the 413. Compared to B or RB motors, the polly motors weren't that light anyway. Add a set of traditional laker style tube headers (or maybe something as flowing as the ones on a Watson roadster Indy car) along with the long rams if you want to shave a little weight. Just remember though, finned aluminum rocker covers probably won't clear the ram tubes (try tweeking some old MTs, they might just make it), and you might have resort to using original painted (gold maybe) steel ones. Adding a stick shift to the mix could shave a few more pounds. If you really want to get it light, aluminum heads are high dollar but effective and would drop the weight all the way down into small block territory. Just think of the bling factor if you polished all the aluminum bits (the rams especially). And you could always run it without a hood (sides wouldn't fit anyway) if you wanted to dazzle (blind?) people.
First off, let me say I regret not mentioning the flathead sixes. I love a flathead inliner (eights especially) and I think that would look awesome - probably one of the late, large capacity Dodge truck engines would move along pretty well too. The symmetry point is a valid one, however, and I respect that. Lots of people pushing for the B- or RB-series motors because of the cross ram intakes. Have you thought about fabbing up a cross-ram for the A-series (Poly) since that's what you seem to have decided upon? Seems like that would have a lot of visual impact along with those scalloped valve covers and wouldn't be considerably harder than building a log manifold for six Strombergs or something. The only downside might be that two AFBs, even 500 cfm models, might be a bit much for a 318 cubic inch V8. Perhaps you could find a set of four-barrels of the type used on the inline manifolds that were offered on the high-performance Poly applications in the fifties - I've no idea what those were, though.
Nope. Actually, the ONLY Plymouth that got a B-engine in 1958 was the Fury, and that was the optional 350. The 318 was still standard, and the 303 and maybe a couple other cubic inch designations were all that was available in the other models. Anyway, nice topic. I still wouldn't hesitate to put a Dodge or DeSoto Hemi in it.
In an old coupe if I hadda go Hemi I'd be on the lookout for a red ram myself. ya just don't see 'em that often. And contrary to popular belief speed parts are not non existant for 'em. There are several older cam companies that will grind you a cam, working truck engines from the later 50s were 2x4 motors and the rest of the stuff is just parts, remember the name of the game is: "Improvise, adapt and overcome."
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