I see copper used on old Harleys for oil lines often......and nothin' vibrates like an ol' Harley....of course, they do leak alot of oil too....hahaha! Copper work hardens, steel work hardens, aluminum work hardens.....when used properly, any should work fine for fuel line....
Before the post WW2 era when AreoQuip became available to the m***es. Copper was used on cars trucks and buses alot. Gasoline, fuel oil, trans mission fluid, lube oil, ch***is grease(10,000 psi from the greease gun), brake tubing for compessed air, water and antifreeze(used to be alcohol), main air lines and branches for the air systems. ALL these had copper tubing. Flare fittings and compression fittings. What's wrong with that? Frank.
run it, putting some vibration coils in it and attach it to rubber fuel line before transitioning to the frame - inspect regularly and expect to replace it at some point. Keep an onboard extinguisher (a good idea regardless of choice of fuel line material) now the term rat rod - and why I percieve its hatedness: it was a decent term when first used, when guys that knew what they were doing just left sheet metal 'rough' - but all mechanical and safety (to a degree) aspects were considered and met. Heck, look at my ride currently, some refer to it as a rat rod - it isnt, but whatever now adays, any psychobillypunkrodhillbilly with wax in his/her hair and cuffed jeans wants the 'look' of that, and alot of the time these things are poser mobiles with whatever oddball or 'old school' thing they can find glued onto an incredibly sketchy 'frame' with little regard to anything but 'cool'factor to pick up chicks with tattoos now dont get me wrong, i love rockabilly, greased hair, no so much cuffed jeans, and good lookin ladies with ink - that said - none of those factors influence my ride, or the reasons im a car enthusiast - tho i tend to lean towards home built stuff that often times gets labeled rat rod. not to speak for anyone else here, but that is why I think the term RATROD has a bad wrap - overall that niche of hotrodding just tries too hard and usually falls short of whats atually cool btw, all that said, i agree - egos and also the thin skins should not be present
Even if copper is safe, why would you use it when there is a better alternative in aluminum or stainless steel? Nothing looks better than polished stainless, and no bare metal surface stays nicer looking without serious maintenance. Stainless is expensive, but so is copper now. Stainless is harder to work with, but if you have the proper tools (which aren't expensive) you can do a nice job that will be permanent. I've witnessed copper lines that have hardened and become brittle in time. Granted, many decades, but it's no lie. Why take a chance with it when there is a better alternative?
I've worked on many old GM trucks,the original gauge lines are steel. Older truck airbrake lines were made of copper alloy.Some new garage aircompressors have what appears to be aluminum line? Brake lines should be steel cause of the pressure,upwards of 800 psi on some systems,much higher pressure than seen on air compressors or refridgeration equipment.
As said above, steel, aluminum, or copper will work harden if not supported properly. Here are a couple of examples of copper I have used. It bends easily, and flares nicely.
Drive em, yer gonna blow up man - maybe even kill us all by postin that pic of 'eek' copper, why that copper has already knocked yer accelerator linkage off - imagine what it might do next.....'COPPER' the very word has started to flare up my ball rash again.....damn you....COPPER
Dude I think your highjacking your own thread. I was wondering if it would be possible to copper plate stainless so you would have the look without the weakness of cooper.
I am a refrigeration engineer and we use nothing but copper, not only is is subject to vibration but also constant contraction and expansion during different cycles. ie cooling/defrosting etc and I do not come across a lot of fractures.if the pipe is clamped properly and anti vibratiion loops or vibration eliminators are fitted ,it should be fine.I`ve used copper tube out the back of my van for every car`s fuel line I`ve built and supplied all my mates with it as well. The copper alloy refered to previosly is called Kunifer.The original pipes on a lot of cars was seamed tubing(bundy tube)...i`d take copper over that any day.
COPPER - the 'real' gateway drug punkrodder - it wasnt my thread, but it got so fricken silly, i figgered on runnin with it drive em - i like that overflow tank...alot!might be stealin that idea - its like a weapon of m*** destruction alright, im done....but it is cool
Who gives a ****. Run it and see what happens. I use steel with br*** fittings and the shortest possible rubber lines. Worked for 50 years once, should be good for another 50. Last time I checked, british sports cars weren't on the list of most reliable cars.
What's Kunifer consist of? What else is in the copper alloy? I'm all kinds of curious... ~Jason Edit: I just found the breakdown: http://www.ireland-alloys.co.uk/tabid/113/Default.aspx Copper/Nickel... I thought so.
Per: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundy_tube "A 1969 study by the SAE recommended the replacement of Bundy tube with 90-10 copper-nickel alloy UNS C70600 (Kunifer pipe) because of corrosion concerns.[1] Kunifer pipe has since been adopted by European automakers Volvo, Rolls-Royce, Lotus Cars, Aston-Martin, Porsche, and Audi.[2] "
Wow... even more info: http://www.copper.org/applications/automotive/brake.html And yes, this link is what you think it is: copper propaganda. But still... ~Jason
Seriously y'all, check this out: http://www.copper.org/applications/automotive/brake.html#data There's studies by the SAE, etc and even pictures. Granted, it's for brake line, but they talk about wear, special coatings and how they do, special alloys and how well they perform, etc. It'll answer a lot of questions. If it's good enough for brake line, it's good enough for fuel... right? ~Jason
So is Kunifer available in the US (and is it affordable)? Oh, the whole "ratrod" issue... this is a traditional site, so asking why the term is unpopular is kinda like going on the Eagle's website and asking why they don't like the Giants.
WOW ! Ok, I just checked online (my memory is getting really fuzzy) and yes, NAPA still sells copper/nickel alloy brake line in bulk rolls. 24 years since i ran a NAPA store.....guess my memory is still ok.. Dave
There ya go, folks. I'd ***ume places like http://www.victoriabritish.com/ - a LimeyMobile catalog sales place here in KC has it... ~Jason
They call it "Cunifer"... that's an even prettier name. Their FAQ is pretty good, too: http://www.fedhillusa.com/?page=faq And their links page has links to a couple of places where they have info on it's durability, etc: http://www.fedhillusa.com/?page=links ~Jason
Ditto... I've seen plenty of carb **** in my day, and some of it did actually feature plated lines. ~Jason
Like others I've always understood that the soft copper tubing that we get here will work harden and have a greater chance of cracking. That aside to me it always looks like someone was too damned lazy to take the time to properly bend up a steel line to fit correctly in the same way running a long piece of rubber hose does. The rat rods to most guys say that the builder was in too big a hurry or too lazy to do things right. Not from a lack of cash to spend on the car but from not being willing to spend the hours to get a decent fit and finish and spending too much time to make the vehicle look like it has pieces scabbed on it that have no business on that rig. The thing is why would you want to spend time and money making something look like it was deliberately scabbed together when with just about the same money and a few more hours you can build a car that looks pretty damned decent out of the same pieces you started with? I have a friend in central Texas (who is well known to the Central Texans on the HAMB) who is noted for building very nice cars that consistrantly win awards and acclaim who spends very little in comparison to other guys building comparative cars. His chopped, channeled and sectioned full fendered Model A sedan held it's own against the big buck cars in Texas shows in the early 70's with a small even at that time investment. The key was that he did everything himself that he could and he paid attention to detail. Instead of chrome or aluminum valve covers his were painted the engine color and he pinstriped them. Instead of chrome pieces on the ch***is his ch***is was slicked off gl*** smooth and Frame rails, axle and other pieces were pinstriped. Not for the sake of having a bunch of stripping but as added detail. Sit back in the chair and think about it for a bit. How much more effort would it take to build the same car into a decent hot rod instead of just a rat rod. Most of the guys here don't care what engine you run but like to see some effort put into detailing the engine. That doesn't mean chrome or shiny aluminum but rather getting rid of the unnecessary scabs and painting it up in a presentable fashion and routing hoses, lines and wires neatly. The same guys don't care if you don't spend mega bucks on the trick of the week wheel and tire combo but will appalaud your resoucefullness at finding that just right set of wheels for a small investment. The list goes on through the whole car. Each bracket and mount that one spends just a bit of extra effort and time on wins an atta boy from many of us along with the just right treatment on areas such as window openings, firewalls and other pieces. One thing I have always wondered about is where do the guys who take the majority of the rat rods that are shown in the magazines that cater to them hide their tow rigs and trailers as most of them don't look to be driveable over any distance.
who gives a **** what they call it. ? Well I can't stand when people call Blink 18**** or Green day punk/punk rock, cause its not. But hey, thats just me. People do give a ****.
This is good! I'm just finishing the steel brake lines on my roadster. The body is off and all is very accessable. Next thing is to run the gas line from the rear mounted tank to the front and I think I'll run it in steel. Why not? Afraid copper might fatigue? Got a steel line in our '36 Ford that runs from the tank and up the firewall on the left side. This is original style I'm thinking. I have run the normal black hose from the steel line over to the carb - byp***ing the flattie fuel pump (using an elec. pump). May do the roadster the same way. Might run a short copper line on the carbs themselves with a nice coil or two in the line -but the main supply line up to the firewall would be steel. Kinda off the subject but don't use one of those bull s#@t plastic fuel filters - ever! I had a leaky carb on the '36 (Holly 94) one night and before I could get it home the fumes built up under the hood and BANG! Sounded like the first shot of duck season! Saw the fire shoot out the side louvers! The fire got larger and melted the plastic filter and out comes more gas! Burned all the wires, hoses, paint on the hood, firewall and part of the front fenders! And oh yes, that night we also re-learned to always carry a fire extinguisher! Live and learn......
The Jalopy Journal
