Interesting. Don't know if it's necessarily a good or bad idea - though blue colored headers would look kind of cool on the right motor. What are you thinking the advantages would be?
no specific advantage, I was just welding the other day and noticed how a brand-new copper nozzle looked pretty sweet with a little heat discoloration
somebody said silver solder or threading the pipe, but I was gonna weld them up. I know copper welding's a ***** but I got all winter...I'm just worried about cracked welds so anyone with experience copper welding might shed some light. Anyways, it's just a 'pipe' dream at this point har-har-har
Maybe I dreamed it but it seems to me that I posted on a post along these lines earlier today. Now I can't find it. Which makes me think that probably everything I posted was a dream. So here's the short list. A long time ago copper and br*** was real popular for tail pipes, they really ring and crack. its a real old timmey thing. I've run both copper and br*** tail pipes at one time or another on several cars, I like the sound. I keep a couple of long pieces of 3" copper laying around to use for lakes pipes someday on something. But I figure that before i get around to it someone else will need it worse than I want it soooo... W ould think that you could make up some headers out of copper but I can think of a lot of rreasons not to. Never the less I haven't done headers out of copper so about the only one that I could mention that would have any real basis in reality is cost. Can you imagine what 3/8 copper plate for flanges would run you? I do think that you would probably want to run vibration dampers on them like you run on a big refrigeration unit. Kinda ugly but it would help cure the possiblity of vabration cracking on your primaries. They would probably need to be brazed up with silfoss to help them be as heat proof as possible. Well thats the daily ration of benno conjecture, now onto bigger 'n' better things.
there maybe a heat warping issue in using copper for headers. you probably could use it for the last length of exhaust pipe though, for a nice metallic sound.
Way back, I had a 36 coupe (flattie) with straight copper pipes, no mufflers. Had the stock manifolds though. The pipes would glow in the dark! Very cool.
These is a Crosley engine on EBay right now with Braje speed parts including a copper header. Kinda cool. I had a copper u-fab style intake manifold once that was soldered. Dunno how they would be to really run though.
so the copper was just exhaust clamped onto the iron pipes? could i clamp the copper onto stubby iron header pipes? it would probably look like hell, but I'd just be interested to see how the copper reacts.
I guess you solder copper because most of us don't have 3 phase power in the shop. If you silfoss it it will handle anything short of nitro. Most of us older guys have run either copper or br*** exhaust pipes at one time or another without any problems. My last ride to run copper out the back was in the 90s. its really not a new idea just a cool idea. Like I said earlier the only down to copper headers that I can give any credence to is the cost as I haven't tried running a set of copper headers yet. I usually clamp the tail pipes, but it can be brazed to steel, I can't remember the name or type to flux used but you can buy it at most refrigertion supply houses.
First, copper is hard to weld. Quite hard. It soaks up too much heat. Second, I don't think that copper headers would crack at all. Each time you ran the engine up to temperature, the exhaust heat would anneal the headers, turning them nice and soft.
'Come and get me copper! You'll never catch me alive.you lousy copper'!!! Jimmy Cagney's best lines ever,, stop it your killing me....Spark-O-Maniac
Copper is really a good heat transfer medium,so I'd bet you engine compartment would run really hot since more heat would be dispersed rather than going out the exhaust. Also copper is really soft,so it would be easy for your system to bend or dent. I like the idea of copper plated headers-the look without the pain of fabrication.
Thats what I was gonna say... but I think it would be too soft and sag or something. or you could make them really thick... but then it'd weigh a ton. I just TIG'd some copper the other day and it looked really neat polished. I used 200 amps and had the pedal to the metal for about 5 seconds before it heated everything up enough to make a puddle.
Great minds think alike, Flexicoker. What were you welding? The big problem with copper is that your second or third weld is going to take less and less time to make a puddle as the whole thing heats up. And then suddenly 200 amps may be way too much, when the whole ***embly has risen in temperature. You're also right that the headers mights sag or something. Annealled copper is really, really soft. I could see it seriously distorting, say when you revved the car, and the engine pulled the headers in one way with the torque, and the rest of the exhaust tried to keep it in place. I can't imagine that you're not going to get exhaust leaks. By the way, there's something in this thread that bothers me, and I'll vent just a bit. The idea that copper would crack comes from the often-repeated advice to not use copper for fuel lines, vacuum lines, and so on. But to suggest that it would crack as a header is just silly, and shows a lack of understanding about metallurgy. Basically, I don't like it when people post their knowledge, when their knowledge isn't first-hand, or even helpful, but is information wrongly forwarded from previous posts. It's more like gossiping than helping, and I hate to say that I see it more and more here on the HAMB. (Although, then again, it's everywhere on the internet, where people hidden by screennames speak in ways that they wouldn't face-to-face, and everyone likes to think that they're an authority on any given topic.) I hope you guys know what I mean, and I don't mean any disrespect to anyone in particular. --Matt
i think that's called ********ting and most people can taste it from a mile away but on with the copper--I was thinking just open headers on a roadster so no full exhaust to worry about, and if you can braze copper to iron then couldn't I just braze a piece of pipe to an iron flange? Or should I try to slip the copper pipe over a stubby little cut-off for strength. Also, I don't know anything about brazing, but since it was suggested I'm ***uming it won't melt...and I also have no idea what silfoss is.
Copper melts at around 1950 degrees farenhiet, give or take 50, depending on impurities. If you use copper headers the heat build up on the bends will eat the outer areas real fast with a combination of heat and g***es being enough to take the metal away. Bronze was used in the earlier days of motoring on many cars because it is easier to cast and the melting point of bronze tends to be higher, around 2250, but again it can vary wildly on the blend of metals, and can be as low as 1250 depending on the zinc and tin content. Copper is more usable for tailpipe and regular exhaust, but I think you'll find it more trouble than it is worth. The headers could easily be plated, as long as you can get them clean enough for a shop to accept them. Being porous they are like a sponge with oil and hydrocarbons, the two things platers really don't like.
All this is no doubt true, but still, can you imagine the look of copper lake pipes along the bottom of the running boards of a fat fendered forty eight as the color changed along the length from blues to greens and every hue in between??? And if what is said it true (no firsthand knowledge here) about them ringing and popping, the sound would be awsome especially at a low rpm idle.
Just some 1/8" plate. I got bored waiting for the CNC to finish so I started playing with s****s. You're right, after my puddle formed I wasn't using nearly 200 amps. I actually didn't think copper could be welded for some reason until I did it. After I welded it it got really soft, which is why I think it would not make good headers. Cool looking at first, yes. Also after copper turns cherry red and starts to cool it gets a black coating all over it, oxidation I suppose.
hmmm...if that crosley header can hold up to the heat for all these years i think it's worth a shot. my motor won't be ready 'till spring, so if anyone else has the nuts to try it please post your results
What did you use for rod????I have an early 60's 300 amp Airco Tig unit and copper welding sounds intriguing. T.OUT
I had a little strip of 1/8" wide s**** off of the 1/8" plate that I used. and I used DC. If I were to weld something for real I'd probably pre-heat it good with a torch. I was thinking you could strip the insulation off of some wire and use that, but someone told me they were coated with something and it wouldn't work... might be worth a try though.
Cool! but just as an aside to the question,I don't suppose anyone out there has a welders hanbook that might be willing to give it a quick look/see? Thanx,T.OUT
Some of the high voltage substation rack conductors at the power company where I used to work used flat copper strap as well as copper tubing for busses. Usually lower voltage stuff like 4kv and 12 kv. Later years they went to aluminum tubing and aluminum flat strap 1/2" thick with amp ratings upgraded with wider bar stock. IE: 1/2" x 4" vs. 1/2" by 6". Anyway, they used to TIG copper pieces for adapters from copper cables with terminal ends so they could bolt the cables to the copper buss strap. Didn't seem to be a problem for the welder, but he was welding straps quite a ways apart. Copper busses were welded on many years back before TIG was around, but I'm not sure what they used there. Aluminum got the same TIG welding treatment as well . . . aluminum straps welded on etc. Along those lines, chrome plating headers is common and the triple plating bit of copper, nickel and chrome looks good. It shouldn't be any great problem for the chrome shop to do the copper and quit right there. I had a local chrome shop use nickel only on a sheet metal hood scoop I made for one of my drag racing 50 Ford coupes. Looked good, but after the car had sat in a garage for about eight years it was getting corrosion bumps or whatever you call the initial stages of rust on it. A little off the subject, but here's a couple pics of a 53 F-100 bought new - and in great shape still - that the owner made a header setup for it out of Schedule 100 pipe. Done with a stick welder to boot. No problems with just about 50 years on the headers. A couple pics of the truck as well.
there have been various cars to use copper as either body work, most recently there is a repro bodied Rolls Silver Ghost that is bodied in copper. Back in the 20's the Rickenbacker had all the trim coated in copper (wheels, trim, headlights, etc.)
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