Never had one in a engine before... So what do I have to expect? A big pain in the ass for a street driven vehicle? Leaking antifreeze all over the place? Do I run the chance of hydrolocking it, water in the oil, rust in the cylinders? Or are they pretty trouble free? I can get a upgraded headgasket for it ( a regular one, but multi layered for running it blown ), but I would like to try it as is first. To see how much boost its running at, etc...
Kinda Off Topic... Its an Ak Miller turbocharged 2000cc Pinto ( Pangra ) engine, with some extra mods done to it.
Solid copper? If so anneal it dead soft if it isn't,spray with aluminum paint assemble with paint tacky.
I knew a guy who would paint a headgasket with a couple of coats of rattlecan aluminum paint before assembling an engine, and put it together wet ( or at least still tacky ) Is that what you mean? He said they were difficult to get back apart again...
^^^^^^^^^^ What he said, I use to use aluminum paint even on Chevrolet steel shim gaskets ,never had a problem with leaks with either copper or steel shim.
Yeah, solid copper. The engine is assembled and running, I didnt take the head off. I have started it, but only for a couple of seconds. W/O any water in it...
So is spraying it with aluminum paint common practice? Is this likely to have been done already? Does it make sense to try and run the engine as is, with a low pressure rad cap? Or should I take it apart? And if it is apart anyway, wouldnt it make more sense to put in a upgraded ( racing ) multi layer headgasket? ( they are really not that expensive, compaired to the work of putting one in...)
We ran copper head gaskets on our blown Bonneville small block engines. We drained the water at the end of each day, they will seep. Not recommended for the street.
I believe solid copper head gaskets were pretty common in marine engine conversions. So they might be superior to composite in sealing, especially when dealing with salt water. They can be reused after re annealing. I have seen them installed with a thin layer of all purpose grease on the block side and dry on the head side. I would thing the paint would interfere with the annealing process upon reinstallation.
I've never had issues with MLS head gaskets, I used to copper spray the snot out of them and I was fine.
I've been running copper head gaskets in my Big Block Chevy street car since 2001 and all my race engines. All I have ever done anytime I have used them was use silicone around the water outlets. I also retorque the head the first time I warm the engine up after installing the gaskets. Never had a problem with leaking water.
This is the stuff to use on copper head gaskets when running water/coolant. Silver paint worked,but this is the shit. Although the spray version will prob work fine,my dad used the can with the dauber in his Fuel Chryslers....they wont seep water if everythings flat,clean & dry. Follow the directions on the can.
I had a problem getting head gaskets (shim and composite) to seal on a studebaker 259 V8. I had used the Copper Coat on the shim gasket. The composite was installed dry. So I checked the service manual and they specified Perfect Seal for the head gaskets. I researched and found Perfect Seal #4 available from Air Craft Spruce for about $5. Applied with a mohair roller to both sides of a metal gasket and ended the problem.
Copper gaskets are generally found on Hi-po engines with "O" rings in the head or block / sleeve. A waste of time and money on a street / strip engine...in addition to being a real pain in the ass! Modern composite gaskets are more than adequate in most applications. As a side note we used them in all of our blown alcohol and injected nitro engines. We annealed them first and sprayed them with Copper Kote. One set could be used and re-used all year...unless!
A coupla things - 1. If Ak Miller built the engine (I knew him), and used copper gaskets, the block or head is most probably o-ringed. If the engine was assembled/built by someone else...who knows. 2. Many use solid copper gaskets. But the "proper" way of using solid copper gaskets is with "o-rings" in the block (or head). This produces a high load on the gasket where the o-ring is and seals in/out everything else. If the block is o-ringed, the only other thing is to use some sealant (Copper Coat, Silicone) around the water passage holes. This should give you good sealing for most normal conditions. 3. Also as mentioned, every three or four times the head is removed, the gasket should be annealed (sofened), as the clamping forces of the head bolts/studs actually hardens the copper gasket (actuall ALL metals to some extent !) Mike
I used copper coat on my copper head gaskets, but my block was o-ringed for running nitrous. The only seeping I got was from the head bolts, but after I broke the cam in, I let the engine cool, then re-torqued the heads and the seeping stopped.
Cool... Thank you for all the info, guys. I think at this point, opening it up might do more harm than good. I have no idea if it is O-ringed or coated. But if it is, I wouldnt want to break the seal. So I'll just run it up to temp ( with a low pressure rad cap ), drain it, let it cool, and re-torque it. If it looks like its giving any sealing problems, I'll replace it with a good aftermarket headgasket.
I use copper gaskets on an OT 429. no leaks. I used a little (very little) RTV and never had a problem. 13:1 compression. Street legal (not saying it's a daily, but it's driven every so often...) Mike
I run a copper layered gasket on a stovebolt, daily driven, and it has had no problems since I slipped it on last year.
If it's O-ringed you should have good results. One plus is not having to buy new ones for a long time. I've run them for many years. Seal around water passages, and spray with copper coat or metallic paint and re-install. Never "re-anealled" any, just put them back in their previous locations and run 'em. Titan also offers them with a wire ring.
In the old days we used the copper gaskets on flatheads and the beauty was we could use them over and over. Just clean off any residue then heat them with a torch to anneal (soften) them up and put them back on. I am also a big fan of the K&W Coppercoat gasket sealer, it works. We ran a 392 blown Hemi in a fuel dragster in the '60s and the head gaskets always got sprayed with aluminum spray paint before they were used. The blocks were "O" ringed and solid filled, water only in the heads.
My '65 442 had them I believe from the factory. When I tore it down the gaskets had rusted away to the point that coolant was in the holes.
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