Technical Cost of a new crate motor compared to rebuild question.

This Corvette had been damaged some on the drivers rear quarter and it had a bar on the rear end that was damaged. It was in a tow lot. It started right up (fuel injection) and idled well. I drove it off the lot and onto my trailer. It has one of those sought after roofs on it thats worth $400 or so. The front and rear suspension and many body parts are worth something. I may buy new upholstery for the seats and use them in my 32...or the S10/LS3 that I can't seem to get done. It also has a small canister power brake unit that looks very usable. Its got 3 good wheels and tires and the small spare its on. It also has an apparently good 700R4 trans in it. Lots of good things for the money and getting to hear the engine run is always a good thing when someone is primarily looking for an engine.

I agree with you that headers indicate someone may have abused the engine, but to me thats still better than buying one you can't hear run.........BUT, When I tell someone I have a REAL Corvette engine in the hot rod.....I really do.

I looked locally the other day after I posted above, and saw several Vettes for LESS than $2k.....one was $850 with the engine and trans. Don't remember if it ran or not. If people look, they can find some good deals on these old vettes just for the parts they provide. Many times the problems they have are electronics but mechanically the engines are ok. Swap a 4 barrel manifold on to one and drive it.

 

I'd give the heads a very thorough visual inspection with bright light and some magnification and pressure test them.

This old Hot Rod article suggests heads that freeze typically crack on the outside.
https://www.hotrod.com/features/prep-school-october-1990-982-1450-33-1/

 

You probably already have your answer but what the heck.
A Crate Motor is the easiest, most cost effective way. But... I like working on stuff and I want to know what I have so no Crate Motors for me.

 

Maybe a whopping 100 hp




Then 150 cid then appears,




Then & now , 219,000.00 Mile
1997 Vortec
When dropped in & On 87 octane
With carb intake, replaced timing chain & to Melling cam 19 ish miles gallon , Th350

 

I would absolutely disagree. Buying a built engine from Jeg's or the like from GM, BluePrint, etc., will often come with a 50K mile warranty. Getting your engine built by a private builder, you take your chances as to whether or not they will stand behind their work if something happens.

 

And I would much rather deal with a reputable engine builder and minimize the odds of having an issue than trying to convince someone who doesn’t know me, or the hourly employee that even built the engine, that it is not my fault the new motor blew. Too many opportunities for someone to not give a damn. We hear testimony of people being told to piss up a rope by big vendors almost daily…

 

Build it yourself
Then you don’t have to worry about a warranty

 

Last GM crate motor I bought (BBC for something at work) cost $11k and had loose head bolts… After I found that, I checked every other fastener in the motor. I plan to keep building my own so I only have one person to blame.

 

You big $$$$ guys are awesome. Installed several high dollar engines. Crate and built by big name builders. I love spending other people’s $$$$$. “Yes you need all the crazy machine work and balancing……..”
I’m super cheap for my beaters. The last 2 were under $1500. That’s dressed up from carb to pan.
And drove the crap out of em.
some guys get wrapped up in the engine. That’s their thing and I totally get that.
I enjoy seeing how far I can go for crap money.
If I get 40 to 50k for $1500, that’s a win and it’s all bonus after that.
I’m around 35k miles in one of those cheap builds. Running strong.
a cheap 302 we built in 88 is still going. Hopefully, it will find its way back home and I’ll put it in its 4th ride. Guy that bought my truck is building an ford mod engine to replace it. Me getting the engine back when he does the chassis swap was part of the deal we made when I sold it.
Turned the crank, new cam/lifters, fresh home/rings and reworked the heads. Around $600 in 1988. And it’s still on the road.
Crazy

 

Thank you, Anthony.

Ben

 

LOL! I’m only a big dollar guy when it is company money and that is what they want to do. I’m definitely more like you and build on the cheap with old parts when it is my money.

 

I've got to go with Anthony's view on this. Above all, be honest with yourself concerning what sort of use the engine is actually going to see. Don't sink $$$$ into an engine like you're going to try to win the Summernationals with it when, in reality, you're just going to cruise around, stop at the ice cream stand, and then maybe get really wild and peel out when you leave. I've known guys who put thousands of dollars into an engine for a car that sees less than a hundred miles a year, and not at a drag strip either. Several years ago, one of my friends wanted to build a '50s style rod (1930 A coupe body on deuce rails), so I sold him a '50 Olds 303 engine. It got rings, bearings, timing chain, and a machine shop ground the valves. A four barrel intake replaced the original, and he welded up some headers for it. It ran well, and provided enough power for a light car, while looking the part. I really don't think that a megadollar engine would have made it any more fun to drive around in.

 

I know a guy that has a '65 GTO. He came across a guy selling a new build, Pontiac engine for $10K. The receipts added up to just over $21K for a 535 hp engine, so the $10K was a good deal. To me, $10K is way over priced, but he wants to go fast. Problem is, the chassis, fuel system, and cooling system isn't capable of handling the engine, let alone the drivers ability to handle the extra power and speed. More than one of who knows him pointed out that a $20K engine will blow up just the same as $2K engine will, it just going to hurt a lot more! Last year he went to 3 drag races, and made 3 or 4 passes each race, rest of the year the car sat in the garage.

Know what you want and be honest with yourself.

 

There's a lot to be said for "putting-one-together"! The satisfaction you get when that 'chick-chick-poop-poop-vaaroom' happens. The so-called stirring-in-your-loins and the big old grin both on your mug and inside
BUT......ya gotta have a place to do all this 'magic'...the ability to do it...the $$$ needed...
Only you know these answers.
I built a couple and the 'feeling' of satisfaction and accomplishment was worth the added expense and time.
YRMV
6sally6

 

Some of you guys are funny, if it's not your cup of tea to have a very well built higher horsepower engine then so be it, no need to bash the guy that wants that.

The question was about getting a local shop to build you an equal engine (out of a used core) vs an over the counter crate engine.

I've got high horsepower totally aftermarket engines and I've also got engines with stock GM parts using plasti-guage during assembly, if they're built right they're all "good" engines.

 

Cost is relative
Like asking how much a paint job is.
I’ve been involved with paint jobs from $100 to probably around 100k
That’s why questions like these are fun

 

Hello,

When my brother and I started our first 283 long block, 6 Strombergs and Chevy truck heads, most of them were assembled, so all we had to do was join them all together. But, it took quite awhile as my brother was a stickler for doing it right and this was our first build together. He was the brains of the outfit and I was the muscle, parts kid, go fer, and younger brother willing to learn what I wanted to do anyway.

He had his way to do things. I was not in any position to doubt anything he put down on a clean white towel to separate the parts we would be working on that day, after school. We did our homework, (good sons, with no complaints from our mom) and had a snack then stayed out in the backyard garage until 11 p.m. or so.

Since the 283 was a long block, the bottom was put together, so we did all of the top end work step by step. Actually there is no step by step. I was just following my brother’s chosen layout and installation program. Where did he get those methods or installation ideas? Who knows, his friend had already built a big time Oldsmobile motor for the A/Gas class and the 34 Ford coupe was fast, ran great as a daily driver to school and sounded like no other street hot rod.

Street legal B/Gas classification with full mufflers, headlights, brake lights and a license plate.

So, back in my brother’s mind, he wanted this 40 Willys Coupe to be similar. The 283 would put us in the B/Gas class with the straight install versus adding any additional structure supports or stiffening components. He knew the B/Gas class had some terrific old time racers and that was a roadblock. But, as young teens, we may get laughed at, but it was our choice of builds to compete.

Jnaki

But, in looking back, there were complete engines sitting in stands at the larger speed shops, Joe Mailliard, Reath Automotive, so, they could have been classified as a “crate” motor as they were fully assembled. No crate terminology as it was a recent classification not 1959-60 lingo. But, it would definitely have sped up the complete Gas Coupe for street and the drags if we had purchased a full 283 injected SBC motor to hook up to our 3 speed LaSalle transmission.

A simple motor in the back of a pickup truck, raised up to the ceiling of our larger garage lift set up would have made things easier. But we were working with a “box boy” and “pharmacy helper’s” salary to keep things purchased, a little at a time.

Note:

As we got some extra cash, then it went straight for the purchase of the next item we needed as we were putting some parts and construction of mounts, etc. So, there was that scene. But, the first time assembly of the 6 Stromberg powered 283 motor took some time before we rolled it out to the other larger garage and hoisted it up on the homemade rafter supported beams to roll in the Willys Coupe for an engine installation.

If a “finished motor” from those speed shops were purchased, we would have had a full race Flathead with three carbs and/or a 283 SBC motor with a Paxton supercharger from the other shop, to install. That would have taken a lot of money, but saved us valuable building and waiting for parts time. So, it was good we had to wait as we learned to do things the right way, in the intricate aspects of engine building and installation. YRMV
NOTE2:
When time came to rebuild, we took the 283 apart. The empty block was given to Reath Automotive and completely honed and finished to an 1/8th over bore. The crank was balanced and machined, then the fun began. Various blower spec parts started arriving at a record speed and we were busy for the next couple of months, everyday after school. Luckily, it was in the spring and no high school sports for me.

The little lifters to the full crank, rods, pistons, etc were neatly arranged on the white towels and the assembly began everyday. For us, it gave a feeling of knowledge and accomplishment to do something so complex. We could have been sitting around, while a Reath Automotive fully assembled SBC motor was presented to us as cost, but where was the fun in that?
So, with the results of the powerful motor near the National record for E.T. in hand, we decided that perhaps we could start a business of building engines for our friends and the general public... For the current question, a fully assembled motor would be more costly than putting one together, it would also, save folks a lot of valuable time in the assembly. For us, yes it would, but where was the fun in that?

 

Well, GM does make a “383” crate engine. But it’s not in a 4.030 x3.75 stroke motor.
Now go look at GM 350 crate engines, look deeper and see what they actually are.
JEGS, Summit, etc always say .030-.060 over bore.
When I was looking a few years back for a ZZ4 short block, not available.
More Google came up with more information, I’ll let ya’all search it out.
I’m not speaking of after market blocks, but “new, Gen1 SBCs” from GM.
Have a feeling you won’t find one, unless it has been sitting around for “someday”.

 

Every time you assemble one, there is a certain amount of anticipation and "pucker factor" when you fire it up.
Then after the cam is broke in and it has no ticking at idle, no leaks, good oil pressure and has that choppy idle with a crisp throttle response you feel like Frankenstein
That motor is forever more like one of your family
Note: Never screwed together a ford engine
Norb

 

Blue Print has a lot of options but prices are higher than I expected but have a good product.
https://blueprintengines.com/collections/gm-compatible

 

I watched a 15/20 minute video done on Blue Print.
Very impressive operation.

 

Just to add.. there is absolutely no need for hardened valve seats on something you might drive once or twice a weekend to a show & then home again. Or even multiple short trips. Daily driver ? Then it might be an issue.

 

The same thing happened to a friend of mine (newly built engine left outside the wrong night ending up with a cracked block). We were 19-20 years old back then, and we scrounged around until we found a usable block. As I remember, it was pretty cheap. A freeze doesn't usually affect anything other than the block, so we removed everything, cleaned it up, and put it all in the new block (we did use a lot of "plasti-gage"). We buttoned it back up, fired it, and he never had a bit of trouble with it. As a matter of fact, that engine went through a couple of different cars as I remember.

So as far as I know, "rebuilding"it (not quite the right term) would be a lot cheaper than a "crate motor" by a bunch. The only problem I see may be finding a block (especially a 327). Back then, folks had all kinds of stuff tucked away for a rainy day, but then again, I haven't had to look for one in the last 60 years.

 

I believe Blue Print has been using new block casting for the sbc I know they cast there aluminum heads…

 

Had a number of high school friends running shops in the 90's , they had trouble with all the remans of the day , jasper , blue point , ATK , whatever NAPA was selling . Defective oil pumps , failure to torque fasteners , oversize valve stems , trash in the assembly , etc . Most replaced the unit , NONE paid reasonably for lost labor . There are many things that you can save money & hassle doing yourself , or you can work at your profession to earn enough money to pay someone to do those things for you & cross your fingers about the outcome, your call .

 

Gezz! Are we still talking about a smallblock chevy here? Don't build it yourself Unless you own a full blown machine shop as it will cost too much! And don't buy a crate motor as it will cost too much! get on FB marketplace look for a 73-85 Chevy pickup or suburban that is rusted out or being parted out or is being sold cheap. Go check out the engine and make sure it is good, Maybe throw a new timing chain in it for the hell of it and drop it in and keep driving down the road. SBC engines are good for several hundred thousands of miles when taken care of. No need in fixing something that is not broke. Just my cents

 

If you can get much more than 100k out of a GEN 1 SBC without machine work & replacement parts , you're an anomaly IMO .

 

Man, In the late 70's and early 80's Rodders would drive across country to all the big events camp at rest areas and the majority of them were powered by a SBC. This was long before everyone had enclosed trailers and 50 foot Toy haulers. There is a reason why so many Rods had SBC engines in them and one of those reasons was "reliability" I have a 1984 chevy pickup that has well over 200K on it and still runs strong. It started using a little oil recently but still fires up and will take me anywhere I wanna go. I also have a 1968 283 that I bought off my neighbor that was in a 1 ton flatbed that had god knows how many miles on it and it is in my model A panel truck and it runs like a sewing machine. The only thing I did to it was replace gaskets and timing chain. I looked at your profile and at your age if your luck with SBC engines has been that bad. Man stay away from the Casino's as with luck like that you must be cursed!...LOL

 

They would be aftermarket blocks, ie not from GM. I’m pretty sure of that.
The video I watched of Blue Print, showed them boring and honing a block (among other things).
Sure, a fresh casting needs to be machined, but I don’t think that’s what they used.

 

So let’s look at the rotted out 85. Say it was only driven 6/7k a year for the past 35/40 years.
Kinda exceeds the 200k thing and will most likely need to go to the shop.
The heads at a minimum, but even if you can buy the rotted vehicle, then you have to dispose of the carcass.
It’s very possible the OP doesn’t have the time/space/experience of assembling an engine, so that leads to buy and machine and have a shop use his parts to assemble, or get a crate engine.