Cross steer VS Suicide steer

Hi guy's i am running 4" tube dropped axle with a crossover spring front end with hairpins and i have a vega box not mounted yet and i'm not sure which way to go on the steering .

What are the pros and cons from one to the other is on better than the other , i really like the look of the traditional side steer but i would like to know your opinion good or bad.

Thanks Mike

PS. the chick in my avatar is my wife ( i get asked alot lol )

 

Suicide: Lots of bump steer, looks more traditional. Free's up room for exhaust, oil pans, etc.

Cross steer: Little to no bump steer, Can be a pain in the *** to run steering linkage through exhaust. Will probably drive nicer if you didnt buy one of the speedway p.o.s. repop vega boxes.

 

Thanks no speedway vega box , how bad is the bump steer with the suicide is this why they call it suicide

 

It is actually called traditional or side steering. I like the look of side steering on an open wheeled ride but both work well. Some say that with side steering you get some axle flex twist that you don't have with cross steer as well as bump steer. This may be true but if all is set up right it should't be an issue.

Which to run depends on room alot of the time, cross steer takes abit more work to set up as far as the steering shaft, u-joints, exhaust clearance. Even side steering can have clearance issues or geometry. Another option is cowl steering which has a cool look but is usually used on low rides.

It all depends on what is easiest or the look for you. There are many, many threads on this topic, with some searching and hours of reading here you should be able to decide what's right for you.

 

Thankyou for the information , i was kinda scared away from the side steer from what i have headr in the past but it sounds not all that bad .

And it ok to use the vega steering box with the side steer

 

In 62 years I've never heard it called "suicide steer". That word is usually used to describe a front spring perch that cantilevers off the front of the front frame crossmember.

 

********! If the push/pull (suicide) is set up with correct geometry you will not have bump steer issues . It is all about setting it up with box in correct location
in relation to rear hairpin mount.

Also , you should not be running a tube axle with hairpins, use a I beam with hairpins . Tube axle should be 4 bar'd .



.

 

You can't use a vega box for side steer, it turns the wrong way.

 

I have a front spring perch that hans off the front of the frame (3" round tube)


- What is the best way to setup the front axle

- What degree should i lay it back

- And where is the best place to take the reading from -- i was thinking the kingpin area

 

I, also, have NEVER heard the term suicide in reference to steering. Side steering systems work real well when set up properly. Meaning that the link between the steering arm and the front spindle is as level as possible

 

You have a Vega box? You already have your answer.

Bob

 

Bump steer for the most part is a product of the draglink and the hairpins being different lengh so they don't move in the same arc. Cross steer can have its own issues if the spring shackles are to vertical the axle can move side to side in relationship to the frame thus steering itself requireing a panhard rod.

 

Yep.

 

LMAO Bob , now thats funny .


What steering box would work with the side steer , would a model A box work or am i way off .

 

Model A Fords used side steering, so they would be correct in design. That said, they're a pretty crude box. I've seen early Mustang, F1, F100, VW bus steering boxes used in side steer applications, but I like cross steering so I never paid much attention to the detals of side steer designs.

Bob

 

more pics of the wife!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I used an early 70's Toyota Land Cruiser box on the Peter Beater. Think of it as a Model A box on steroids. Just make sure the draglink is as close to parallel to the hairpin, split 'bone, whatever as humanly possible. I routinely beat the tar outta that thing at high speeds and low speeds on all kinds of terrain....

 

Thanks Bob

 

What are most guys using for a steering box for the side steer , year , make , model

Mike

 

One style is F100 or F1 truck. F1 being the older 1/2 ton. F100 is 56-up. F1 can use other types of Ford pitman arms, F100 is a different spline, with a through bolt/nut to hold it on.

The other difference in these truck boxes, is that the beefy part of the box where the worm is, is different. Like if you had clearance problems from the box to the starter, you sometimes can clear the problem with the other box. Early Olds motor into a 32 is one example; The f100 fits perfect, the F1 won't.

 

On the Toy box I had to machine the pitman arm to flip it on the pitman shaft. Also took the steering wheel end off an A box and welded it to the Toy. Made the adaptor i already had easier to use. Made a simple frame mounted bracket. I had less than $50 into a bullet proof box that I beat the **** out of.

 

I just brought this back to the top to compliment your wife's ***................
Whenever I say to my wife "I like your ***", she says " I love you too". Then hits me....
Back on topic......both work well...when run correctly.
I am using a mopar box on the frame. It is a large box. Look into it....

 

I always thought "suicide steering" was when the tie rod was in front of the axle, seen mostly on T-buckets.
Like others said either method works or it don't, it all depends on how it's set up. We been running a late 60's Mustang box in our side steer A-V8 for 20 years and love it, never an issue with handling and I always hate the U-joint/ header issues with the Vega in an early car.

 

The 60's mustang steering boxes work for side steer , is there any year i should look for ??

 

I think any 60's, early 70's box will work, the 64/66 has the steering wheel shaft, later have a rag joint. Mine I believe was out of a 67 (remember when you could buy Mustang parts in a junkyard).
I seem to remember Falcons and Mavericks will work too. On our A I bought a nice aftermarket pitman arm from TCI ( I think, long time ago). They made the mounting bracket too. Don't know if any of that is available anymore. They tended to drop in popularity when the Vega started showing up but at that time it was the ticket on early Fords.

 

thanks for all the info.


Why can't you use the vega box for the side steer , if you put the pitman arm upward it will pull and if you put the pitman arm hanging downward and you turn the steering wheel the same way the pitman arm will push so why can't you use it am i missing something here ??

 

These boxes can used up front in stock position for cross-steering or rolled over under frame for fore-aft steering.

60-65 Falcon, 65-67 Mustang, 61-66 Comet all have long steering shafts up to the wheel. These can, of course, be cut.
Mid-67-73 Mustang & Cougar, 70-74 Maverick & Comet all have the short stub shaft and rag-joint.
Steering sector shafts vary from 1" to 1 1/8" so be sure to match your pitman arm to the box correctly.
Rebuild parts are available everywhere and most Mustang parts suppliers have a rebuilt box exchange program.

 

Hillbilly, you can but there is a lot more involved then just mounting it, angle of the drag link, ect. There is an A in town set up that way but it looks goofy they way they mounted it IMHO, way up high on the rail with some "creative" brackets. I think they mounted it high to get the drag link somewhere near the right plane with the wishbones. Couldn't tell you how it handles either, he never drives it farther then the trailer and there are so many other issues with the front if it did handle bad who knows what causes it. If it worked well I think we would see it more often.
pasadenahotrod,that's the scoop, been too long for me to remember all the interchange.

 

Thankyou lots of good info


Can you mount a vega box other tan on its side like on the side of your frame rail can it be mounted on the top of the frame rail or will it wreck the box

 

I used a reversed cast iron corvair mounted in the traditional place on my 34 with hairpins, the drag link was parallel with my wish bones and it steered great with no bump steer.