Technical Cured My Flathead’s Occasional Overheating (The Hard Way)!. Updated 1-6

Went ahead and bolted the Cragar adapter to the 41 trans and the CE mounts to the bare block.



Ready to drop in, right? Not so fast there, Bubba.

Shop tip: Watch your lift’s power cord when you lower it!
Pinched it!!
Luckily the breaker tripped and I wasn’t shocked!!
SOB!! The fun just won’t stop.
More opportunities.

 

Well, only a couple of small victories this week, but some just the same.
1) Finished up the second story window painting project! Kicked my butt!
2) Sold the blown up 40 flathead motor plus another core one. Still have 3 left!!
3) The correct steering u-joint came from Summit today, so I managed to get it installed this afternoon.
Haven’t checked wheel clocking yet, so plenty more aggravation is possible!
It’s still going to take some fiddling, since the box adapter holes don’t line up with those in the box.
“Bolts right in” my ass.
At least the 40 pitman arm went right on. Whatta ya know!!
Hope to get the motor mounts in tomorrow, we’ll see.

 

Hard to believe, but there was some positive progress on the motor mounts today!
Got the bare block slinged up, dropped it and the CE motor mounts in place (almost).
“Almost” because the block won’t quite pull up tight to the Cragar trans adapter on the passenger side!
I can’t tell if the bolt is binding or that block hole is a little shallow, or the block dowel is stuck.
I’ll get it in the air on the lift tomorrow (fixed the cut power cord!), get a better perspective, and try a couple of fixes.

One thing’s for sure, the bare block was harder to do than I anticipated. I should have pulled the front fenders. Every other time that I’ve installed an engine there was no front sheet metal. Using a complete engine would not have been fun by myself. Been done 1000’s of times though. But glad to report no damage, not even a scratch!

Tomorrow hopefully get the holes marked and drilled and the lump back out.
And do something with all that plastic wire loom!

Carry on!

 

Well it was a combination of the block a wee bit out of alignment and binding the bolt and the dowel, and something in the bolt hole. Jacked up the corner of the block with the floor jack and a pipe, got a different bolt and everything pulled up tight, as it should.
That’s all until after Thanksgiving. Hope you all have a wonderful one.

 

Well, another toe stubber.

The Cragar adapter has a TDC tab or ear to bolt it to the corresponding boss on the SBC. See on pic.

The boss on the new engine is neither drilled nor tapped.
It is just hitting the bottom lip of the firewall.
Can’t lower front CE mounts any.

Options:
1. Move engine and trans a 1/4-1/2” forward.
This would require trimming inside bottom flange on the CE adapters, as they’re hitting the inside of the frame rail.
Trans support plate bolted to x-member would need to be remade or redrilled to match stock trans mount holes.
Clutch shaft pivot arm ball might have to move..

OR

Trim off tab on Cragar adapter and don’t use that bolt. Use 6 bolts instead of 7.
Leave CE frame adapters as is and carry on.

 

I’ve got very similar on my 51.
283 and the adapter just interferes with the firewall.
I’m going to simply hammer and dolly that spot.
My firewall isn’t painted yet though.

 

I'd chop it off

 

Right now that’s the plan. It’s just scraping the radius on the firewall, as can be seen by the chipped paint. With it removed, there should be enough clearance.
In fact, if there is enough room to raise the engine 1/4” with a spacer at the CE biscuit, it may give enough room to clear the fuel pump inlet.
It’s awfully close as is. Sure would save a bunch of work clearancing the front crossmember!

Just touch up the paint.
And get rid of all that plastic loom!!

 

Yeah, no need for that top bolt. Even the factory quit using it.

 

A little progress, finally.
Got the trans mount redrilled and bolted back in,
CE adapters squared off, top holes marked and drilled and the bare block pulled back out.
Next the PITA bottom holes, trim the Cragar adapter and start on moving the wiring while there is plenty of room.

(An added, but easily overlooked, plus by the PO is the use of the piece of All Thread rod welded in to reinforce the fender support yoke.. A clear case of function first, form last)

 

Cut that top tab off. Had the same issue with my 39. I have nearly 25,000 miles on my 39 since it got back on the road and not one issue. Also look into a 55/56 small chevy distributor or, a Mallory distributor, they are a little smaller and give you noticeably more clearance at the firewall. A MSD or standard chevy points will fit, but it get tight quick.

 

Got the top tab cut off without having to remove the adapter. It beat on the firewall more than I first realized but a little touch up primer and paint and it won’t be seen back there. Oh well!

I have a small Chevy points distributor as well as a Mallory so there should be good clearance.

 

I Got the CE frame mounts all in place and bolted down tight, and got the bare block back in.

I had stashed away a couple of 1/4” thick x 1-1/2” diam. flat washers with 1/2” i.d. holes that came from who knows where.
I placed them between the CE block mounts and the upper rubber biscuits, raising the engine 1/4”.
I also picked up a 50-60’s Corvette (?) fuel pump to replace the one I had bought earlier which had bottom fittings that hit the crossmember. This would have required some crossmember mods. The new pump has a clean bottom and fittings that go into the pump body. It is also adjustable so the fittings can be indexed to the best spot.
It’s a Carter M2468, or equivalent.

With the spacers and the shorter pump, I now have 1/4” clearance between the bottom of the pump and the crossmember. All that’s needed are a couple of longer 7/16” bolts for the CE mounts.


Now I don’t have to cut, weld and repaint the normally required step down mods to the crossmember!!! Moving on!

Next pull it all out, paint the new parts, sort out the wiring with new loom and drop in the new complete and running engine!

 

Pulled out the bare mock up block for the final time (he says with fingers crossed)

Started on the fubar wiring by stripping off all the plastic loom.
Note: yellow wires call for yellow wire nuts!



That led to an interesting discovery of unlabeled and mis-labeled wire!
For instance, these two labeled “alternator” and “fuel pump” run to the right headlight!

No terminal blocks or Weather Pack plugs, just bullet terminals covered in shrink tubing.
So NO disconnects for lights, signals, horn.


More opportunities. RIP HAMTOWN AL!

 

It gets worse.
Multiple wires spliced, making up a run. Different gauge wire in the same run.
Different colors or the same color as an adjacent circuit.
Not bullet connectors, but 10 ga. crimped butt connectors, neatly shrink wrapped.
Still have to trace back the wires terminated with house wire nuts. WTF!

It’s going to need at some point a TOTAL re-wire, just not now.

Since everything is/was working up front, and it has a 10 circuit panel along with a couple of inline fuses, I’m going to tidy it up, cut off some excess, add a junction block, some woven loom and get on with it.

The under dash is a worse cluster f**k, also with no I.D., rolled up excess lengths and crisscrossed circuits.
A real snake’s nest! Yet every terminal end is neatly shrink wrapped.

Behind the dash: a snake’s nest!

But I do have, in the glovebox, a hand drawn schematic of the panel and circuit name so that helps.
Thanks, PO wiring genius.

 

I decided to use what was there to get Fatso back on the road, and let the rewire wait for some future time, as it looks like a total gut and rerun. But I had to strip it down to the headlight plugs just to decipher the colors of the spliced wires. Got it figured out, put in a junction block with the feeds marked. Just need some loom or lacing. Now I can redo just the front wiring if it comes to that. Still have that mess at the firewall to deal with. Press on!

(OOPS! Two pieces of shrink tube are bass-ackwards. There goes the Riddler!)

 

This mess of a wiring job by SOME fool is wearing me to a nub!

Managed to finish up all the front light circuits and got everything working as it should.

Traced down the the four long dead and mislabeled wires back through the twisted bundle, through the snake’s nest behind the dash and pulled them out. Also found two bare and burnt wires for the electric fan so I yanked that whole circuit. Not planning on running one.

The previously working headlights now only work if the ignition switch is on, but the headlight switch is OFF! It is one of those glass fused Chicom el cheap jobs so it needed replacing anyway. Of course it’s relay is on the firewall, back under the cowl vent, so it’s unaccessible.

I’m seriously considering ripping the whole mess out and running all new. This POS is a time eater and I found that I’m not as agile at 77 as I used to be. Laying upside down on the seat, stretched behind the dash makes for some rough mornings after!

Hopefully the Holidays will give me some rest and a clearer head.
Merry Christmas to all, and to all a good night!

 

Evidently the "sparky" that wired that ran short on wire and reused other pieces lying on the floor. Hey, I've done it, but I wipe them in thinner to remove the labeling so the next guy doesn't post stuff like this and make look stupid.

Looking tidy, Stay after it and don't forget to have an eggnog or three.

 

Depending on how your seat is mounted, why not just remove it? That will give you TONS more room and comfort for getting under the dash.

 

Last time I had to spend a length of time under the dash while re-working wiper system on a 40, we pulled the seat right out. WAY more comfortable than pretzeled on/in front/under the seat.

 

If the wires seem like the right gauge, it all can be fixed. If you want to run a fuse box, you can make one. Just pull out the front seat, make all the wiring neat, make sense and cover it all.

 

Thanks, I was hoping that this would only be the front end wiring and would be simple and short, and I could move on with the engine install. And wait on the total redo.
When the issues run back to the mess behind the dash it starts to get complicated and frustrating real quick. Every step turns up more fubar work on top of fubar work. It’s hard to even describe.
Pulling the seat is a must if this gets any more messy.
Thanks for the tips.

 

Thanks, but the SOB didn’t use any labeled wire except for that which is mis-used, like “fuel
pump “ used for the lights.

I’ve spent enough time and swearing at this steaming pile of shit that I could have installed a new harness.
Who needs headlights anyhow? Just drive only when during daylight.

Sorry, rant over (for now)

 

Working some every day but seems like little progress.
Wiring gremlins corrected for the time being, painted pieces (steering box, fuel line and motor mounts) installed for the last time
(yeah, right)


Still have to get out the two flathead steady rods out with no room underneath and floor and carpet on top. Opportunities

UPDATE:
Now my lift has taken a s**t with the car on it!!
Cylinder seal is bypassing and fluid is puking out the pressure relief valve.
At least it’s locked in place and secure.
But it’s probably too high for the engine hoist to set the engine in.
I’ll have to pull the cylinder out and take it to the hydraulic shop.
In fact, there is a YouTube video by Back Yard Buddy on doing just that.
Just another day in the neighborhood!!

 

So you're saying your car is suffering from yet another cylinder failure? At least it wasn't a brake cylinder!

 

Ha!
Just another inevitable bump in the road requiring more time, money and labor.
To be expected with this never ending PITA project, I guess.

Another small victory, though. I did get the engine steady rods out of the x-member!
One bolt was only finger tight, the other one rusted, of course.
Just enough room between the floor and the x-member to slide in an open end wrench and turn 45* at a time, once I got it busted loose.
An hour later and success, and they’re on the floor!

 

Some long awaited progress!!
Thank God for my good neighbor and friend, Bob!!
He’s been turning wrenches on trucks for over 40 years, so it was time to put him to work since he’s also retired.
With his help we got the engine bolted in.
It was great to work with someone who speaks the language and knew what to do. I sure couldn’t have done it by myself!



With the lift being stuck and the car three feet the air, the first challenge was having enough lift height on the engine hoist to get the oil pan over the crossmember.
I ended up pulling the carb, shortening the chains and removing the swivel and hook from the hoist.
With me on the engine hoist and Bob underneath we did a dry run and ended up pulling a few interfering bits off the engine. Then it was go for broke and after a lot of wiggling and swearing, we got the input shaft into the disc splines and the trans adapter tight to the block. The CE mounts wiggled into place and we tightened her down. YAAAAYYYY!

Remember earlier how I got the fuel pump to clear, and saved having to cut and box the crossmember?


Well, it doesn’t clear any more!! WTH,!!!!
Surely the CE motor mount biscuits didn’t compress over 1/4” with the loaded engine!
More opportunities!

Stay tooned!

 

Chasing my tail and going in circles this week. S.N.A.F.U.

Not enough clearance between the distributor and firewall! Maybe only 1/16”!

And the right rocker cover hits a heater mount stud!

Decided to move the CE frame adapters and trans mount holes forward.

Hooked the hoist back up but lifted it from the front of the heads, and raised it just enough to pull the frame adapters out.
Moved them forward, lengthened the slotted holes in the trans mount and slid everything forward 3/8”.
Also spaced up the trans mount 1/4”.
Reinstalled the frame adapters inside the frame instead of on top which dropped the front of the engine down an extra 1/4”.
Now there’s 1/2” clearance at the distributor and 1” at the right head.
Clutch pivot is good.
And the engine is now level!
Lots of aggravating extra work, but I feel better about it all.

Had some tight working quarters with the hoist boom and chains in place. Had to climb up on the bench also.


Deja Vu, all over again! All in and buttoned down for the last time, he says.
Lots of chipped paint to touch up!


Now to deal with the fuel pump. Mechanical VS electric.

 

Hockey pucks don't compress.

 

Why did you let it get so hot. That was really stupid. You killed a really good engine. Just poor maintenance on your part. Your generic, cheap and easy sbc won't last long either if that how you treat engines.
A well built and maintained flathead will be every bit as dependable as a sbc.