Polls seem to be anonymous, so this seems to be a good way to go. Over the last few years I've hired several people to work in my customization/restoration shop and I've had all kinds of responses when it comes to salary. Sometimes I'm told my ideas are way too high other times they are way too low. Would like to know what is common pay scale. I know this varies by location, type of work, experience and benefits, so if you want to respond to the thread and give some additional background, I think we're all open to more information. Also, do you pay for work hours or billable work only? I've seen both. This is something that will interest both shop owner as well as employees, so please everyone answer.
Coming from the other side here, but both the shops I worked in paid less than 20 per hour to guys when they were new and then put em on some sort of salary once they were proven. I left both shops due to concerns over how long they were going to be able to afford to keep me on (and I work cheap!). In my opinion you should pay what you know you can afford. There's no quicker way to limit someone's output than to have them wondering if their paycheck is going to bounce... Sounds like a no brainer, but from what I've heard and experienced myself, it's a pretty common problem in the DFW area....
This is almost a loaded question. Independent shops have a hard way to go in the wage game. Billable hours are YOUR problem, not the tech's. You need to know that if they spent 20hrs doing something it's worth it. If you're under staffed, under equipped, specialize in rust revival or specificmakes of cars (where no parts are bought, they're made) those hrs go up fast. Anything in the specialty automotive market, ANTHING, is going to take longer than normal and there's no "book time" for it anywhere I've seen. In our shop we get the same hourly rate for a Packard fender that we do for a Model A. It's still a hammer and dolly and finish time. Of course the Packard fender is more complicated and will take longer, and you can buy new Model A fenders if that's the best way to go. Fabrication? Time and mat'l is the only way to go. Here's where your question gets more juice. You have a guy who can flip numbers in his head, shape a part while he's talking to you, has a following of his own that followed him to you now. He's worth whatever you can afford to pay him. When he fucks up it's either equipment/product failure or lack of info before the part was made/modified. Tough call there. This same valuable guy would make it right on his time if he missed the mark because he didn't get none that morning or is simply having a bad day. It happens. This is the toughest buisness model in the auto service industry, doing restoration or customs. Even at competitive rates it's simply very expensive to do and offers little in the way of profit margin. I have a formula that always works for me in estimates, projections or profit margins. 20%. Take your best guess based on the dozens of services offered and figure you'll have 20% of what I call "down time". Again, failures, late deliveries, obsolecense, bad hair days, it all adds up to remove that from your best idea of success. You can't just add 20% to your estimate because that down time isn't always on the customer. And speaking of the customer, beware the few who know more than you do. I had a guy pull a job last month. A frame off restoration that should have been $30-35K all in. He was at 200hrs, give or take, and decided it should have been done and show-worthy by that time. Yeah, maybe on TV. He wanted an AACA championship level product for Maaco prices. So do I. As much as us seasoned tech/manager/owner type would like to pass along our craft, that too can be a slippery slope. We have a different generation of spoiled little bitches who want the world handed to them like the soccer trophy they got for sitting out the whole seaon...but they were on the team. Make sense? That's the most charitable way I can describe it. They can cost you dearly if you look away for more than an hour or 2. There's always 1 reason you've created a customer base. Everyone who works for you has to have that reason in their work ethic. It has to be as common to them as breathing or they cost you. Talent and experience is indeed the 1st consideration and pay should reflect that tach's value to you. I'd think something the 'hood of $25/hr and perhaps a semi-annual or quarterly performance bonus would be worth your mutual time. That bonus needs to be earned. Even good techs can fuck up the shop's flow, and that too costs your bottom line. Is this what you were looking for? Got any specific questions?
This is like asking how much a resto on such and such car will cost on this and that timeline. It all depends on your business model, your desired ROI, experience, tools they have, how well rounded they are in all aspects, can they handle customers if need be, etc... Don't think there is a set round about guideline, pretty much between you and said tech.
Pretty good feedback so far and I must say I agree with everything that's being posted. The job is not easy, mistakes happen and experience and skill are the key driver to success. There is also no clear guideline, it depends on the situation, but there are some basics you keep in mind when you're recruiting. I've had guys come in for interviews from the same job add (on the Hamb) one asked $15/hr the other wouldn't work for less than $47/hr.. big difference, same job description. Their experience was different but not enough to warrant triple the pay. In my shop: - Someone to work as the shop helper, they are in the low end, very low end, but don't expect much experience, parts washer, cleaner, blasting that kind of jobs. - Someone who is experienced, can handle customers and brings in their own jobs, they are at the high end with a combination of hourly salary and commission on sold business.
Back up, see if the evening crowd can get us some more info. I think the data that we're collecting is very interesting.
My friend you have some very valid points there. I do some pretty fidley 1 off stuff for expensive restos (20's packards, caddys etc,making new mouldings and missing parts etc) and feel like a prick charging out what it costs, but they never complain and always come back. Theres no point losing money on a job you only go backwards,or broke. On the other hand like you said you always have those cheap customers, and ive had my share that think you get concours restos for nothing, those pricks just give you a bad rep in the long run and probably should be sent packing from the get go. Amazing how many "Friends" you have when your in the car busines who always want mates rates as well. Dont Know about your country but $30-$40 an hour over here for a good tradesman would be about the norm.
theHIGHLANDER: Brother... you hit it right on the head. Having worked for a couple specialty shops, i've seen this all first hand. I couldn't have said it better
i was raised you get per hour what your worth to the company you work for. now while i dont condone working for peanuts per se, sometimes it is best for both parties as one needs to prove themself and the other wants to be shown some motivation. and just because its peanuts doesnt make everyone a monkey. sometimes all a tiger wants is a nice meal and some shade to sit in when the days done. some folks keep the cost of living cheap still in order to do more of what they want. whats that saying? if you do what you love, you wont work a day in your life. its very, very true. ive heard people and told people, "gimme $10/hr and lets go from there". i can live pretty decent off a 50 hr work week at that grip (at least until ive been proven) its drive, motivation and a bit of experience imho that makes the pay. they could have the most experience and you not like the guy or he tears stuff up. he wont last long either way. case by case basis really. but even 20/hr seems a bit high for a first day n00b. there is actually a 90 day review/probationary period in most places.
Let's see if we can get some more responses. I for one have been surprised by the results. Interested to find out about some of the "higher" results.. we're looking for salary, not hourly rate charged to your customer, $40+ an hour seems to be a lot of money compared, especially as we see that 60%+ of the responses is below $25.
the last shop i worked at i made $25.also got health insurance a 401k plan ,2 weeks paid vacation,10 paid sick days ,a pretty decent bonus , got parts at cost and some free from suppliers,plus use of the shop and equipment... if i raced my jeep all travel and entry cost where paid for. it was a pretty decent deal....but i got burnt out... this was a custom 4x4 shop.i did custom axle ,fab work.and basic install...
I agree that Highlander pretty much summed it up. Good response! Ironically, I was just doing a web search regarding restoration shop pay scales and was led to this topic, on a site that I am a member of! If I can throw a question back to the rest, is your shop workload improving, decreasing or staying the same? We're seeing marked improvement the last 30-60 days.
With the thread on "what to pay" getting a lot of he said/she said discussion, I figured we should get this one back to the top. Vote on the poll and post your specifics. What does (or should) a restoration tech make?
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