I have been kicking around this idea for a couple of years now. See what you think. I live in NH so that means snow, ice and crud for 6 months of the year. most of us drive junkers in the winter due to them rusting away. I would like to drive something with some personality year round but I would hate to think of what the road salt would do to a 75 year old body! So I thought of building a frame out of 409 stainless ( I have a CNC plasma table), using a fibregl*** body (I know it isn't traditional), run a 5.3L ls based motor and a 4L60E and gat everything possible in SS eg: brake and cooler lines, suspension, exhaust, fuel tank etc. Then it wouldn't metter if it was hit with salt every year. So am I crazy? chime in with your opinions and don't be shy, I have thick skin!
i think it's a great idea. that's really thinking outside of the box.i personally would rather see you use an aftermarket body for your project. it makes sense. i have had to use my last two rides in the past two winters on several ocasions out of necessity. i was always worried about the un necessary salt exposure. and the fact that youre building it is great. i cant put anybody down on here for actually building something for themselves. there's way too many people in my area that ''build'' their cars by pulling out their checkbooks. have fun, and keep things posted if you decide to do it.
Sounds like you'd have something you could potentially have for the rest of your life, just freshen it up every 10 years. IMO, the only reason to go through all the effort and cost of fixing up an old car, is if you: 1. Keep it for a long time. 2. Use it. It seems many people fix something up so nice they don't want to use it, then they get tired of it so it is sold off, and the dreaming takes on another form. There are alot of vehicles for sale right now with overinflated values. People think everything is rare and valuable because X number were built with such and such options. Who knows if we'll even be allowed to run non hybrid vehicles 30 years from now, we could get hit by some pretty stupid legislation in the future. I say drive the wheels off whatever you have, no matter what you think it is worth. Why let it take up good garage space and keep it mint for the next guy to wreck?
Yeah....do it if you have the time and money. That'd be way more awesome than a 'new' car that don't last but what....7-10 in harsh weather?
Traditionally, your winter vehicle would be made of wood with forged iron runners and 1 horsepower. Sounds like a good idea to me but of course things will still tarnish and start to look ****py in a couple of years. Still...you'd be having fun while others looked on in envy.
Does 409 stainless work harden and become brittle like the 300 series stainless does? I know the stainless we used to use in the factory did not hold up well to constant vibration and would crack and break along the stress lines. Wouldn't be a good thing for a car frame or body. Gene
I was thinking of that. I will have to do a little research to see if it is the case. 409 will "rust" a little but it is at a much slower pace than mild steel. GM has used it in their exhaust system for years. I have not seen any cracking issue there and they last 20 + years. but then an exhaust is not put through the tortional loading that a frame would be. Anyone here know more on the properties of 409? Hahaha! that was my 2nd thought!
I weld up a lot of factory installed stainless exhaust systems that tend to break at the factory welds. And your right, the exhaust doesn't go through near the stress a frame rail would. Gene
If frame were made of something like carbon-steel square tubing, it could be made pretty durable by powder coating after fully continuous welding and inserting a bit of oil into voids...that would have to be done last, due to heat of the powder process, then the holes filled. All suspension bits powder coated, etc.
It sounds like a great idea and in the end probably would cost about the same as a new off the showroom floor box with wheels that you would loose a good percentage of the purchase price on as soon as you drove it off the lot. I would do some serious investigating on what grade of SS would be the best to use though.
I've though about doing this myself. I don't really think you need a stainless frame though. I don't think I'd powder coat it either. My experience with pc in winter is that rust spreads very quickly under it once it chips or cracks. I'd paint it, then use the non hardening rust proofing all over it, inside and out. My plan was to build a gl*** merc, the problem though is I don't know how well one would hold up as a daily. Extremes in cold and heat, coupled with vibration and shock would probably cause problems. But here's the real question, do you really think it's a good (safe) idea to use a fragile gl*** car to go out driving under the worst conditions, slipping and sliding around in todays heavy traffic? I think you'd be better off to buy a nice "rust free" truck from the south west, I think trucks are easier to keep up since they're higher and built in sections that make them easier to strip back down and redo from time to time. Tear it down to the frame, and paint and rust proof every component BEFORE you bolt it together. In the end, I just decided to drive an old jeep in the winter, and spend my winter time building something for summer. But I really should move south!
Haha! no, not yet. I am in the middle of a career change, turned 40, trying to get to PA and get my 56 wagon for a g***er! But I do have an extra 35 ford cab that needs roof work. I could just use that.... I think 304 has better properties for this build. Only issue is it is 3 times as expensive as mild steel. 1/4" 4'x8' sheet of steel is $168. 1/4" 4'x8' sheet of 304 is $774ish
fibergl*** bodys have been around since the 50s, and you can build a pretty trad looking ride using a gl*** body and stainless parts. Keep true to a style as you build so you don't end up with a rust-proof eyesore that will last for ever! Don't get to busy making it last that you forget to make it cool, too.
Nope 409 stainless definitely does not work harden like 300 series- but it is more likely to get suraface rust on it - the rust will never go through the 409- but it will definitely get a patina to it lol
Not to be a wet blanket, but there's one more thing that I forgot to mention, insurance. How would you insure it? You can't put collector insurance on a daily, and I can't imagine any co. insuring a custom built car as a year round daily driver. A few guys told you to build it, but that's because it's always easier to spend someone elses time and money, before you follow that advice, make sure you're gonna be able to insure it as a daily for full replacement value, just in case the plow truck hits ya. And yes, gl*** body's have been around a long time, but mainly as simple cars like T buckets and roadsters, or small 32 coupes. None of which are very practical as a winter time driver. I'd say something the size of a 49-51 merc would be much better, but a larger expanse of fiber gl*** means a lot more expansion/contraction/vibration etc. And, like I said before, I wouldn't want to be T-boned by a salt truck in a gl*** car! If you do it though, keep us posted.
Good point! Don't want another delorean! My original thought was a 409 frame. some rust is ok just no rust through/rust out. Another good point. I guess I would see it as not an ivestment type of rod but more like " I spent $25K building a driver just as I would spend $25K buying a new driver egg shaped car". yes it would deteriorate, depreciate etc I was thinking of a 32 3 window or a 33 coupe. It would be traditionally styled in a sense that it would be open wheeled, steelies, narrow rubber (better in the snow), I beam/hairpins, solid rear axle. motor would be covered under a hood in the winter and hood top only in summer. Probably be a EFI 5.3L newer truck motor with overdrive (cheap, easy, starts in -10F winter, OD for mileage) then just insulate the heck out of it and run a good heater.
A FENDERLESS CAR IN WINTER SLOP!!!Are you ****tin' me?? Have you ever driven or followed a fenderless car in the rain? And you must have more money than I have if you can afford to drive a $25,000 car in winter without comp/collision and take a total loss if someone slides into you (if you survive).
X2 on fenderless in NH winters. You will be sand blasting yourself with sand and rock salt. Also soft tops are "cool" too. For that kind of $ I'd by a used pickup every few years, and keep the rest of it for something better.
your feeling ambitious why not build the body out of stainless too? I have a few pots and pans I could donate lol
I've thought along similar lines - I linve in Ohio and we salt the bejesus out of the roads. I'm sick of my cars dissolving. The biggest obstacle I found is how to register it and p*** emissions testing. At least in my area, unless you have enough of an old vehicle as part of the build process (with a ***le), you have to ***le it as the model year of the engine (which you have to do***ent) so you have to p*** emissions testing on that year. If not, it gets ***led he model year you first ***le/register it, and then you have to p*** the latest emissions testing levels. I know these aren't traditional either, but rather than an LS1, it might be worth considering either an LT1 or possibly a Cadillac 4.1/4.5/4.9 (transverse) V8 if you want something with a decent fuel injection system that will run reliably, but is OBD1 and relatively simple and cheap to build a standalone system with stock parts. The Fiero guys are using the Cadillac aluminum V8 in their swaps with much success. Another option would be to go with an aftermarket FI system (or something like Megasquirt) and run it on an older block that would be emission exempt. Would be more work to tune. The other issue is, building something from scratch, you have to do***ent where all the major parts came from for the highway patrol inspection. Do***entation of what is a "major part" and what is "acceptable" is a little vague. Essentially, you have to keep all your receipts, and if you can get the VIN from the source vehicle (and it isn't in the system as stolen), that helps. How swap meet parts that are 50+ years old would figure into that system, I don't know. My recommendation is to figure out exactly what you want to do, and then contact all the agencies involved (preferably talk to the inspectors themselves), tell them what you want to do, and confirm what it is they want.
They use liquid salt here I find that the occaisional car wash works wonders. But yes a stainless and plastic car is a pretty good idea for sure. I mean hell its a dailey right?
I asked Brent Vandervort the same question when I used to work at Fatmans and he said the same thing that others are saying, for a strictly show car that would be fine but it would crack under the stress of normal driving conditions. now that said I have stainess MII A arms on my 54 and have put quite a few miles on them with zero issue? maybe its because they dont flex, thats what the bushings are for?
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